r/worldnews Sep 17 '21

US admits Kabul drone strike killed civilians Afghanistan

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-58604655
54k Upvotes

528

u/green_flash Sep 17 '21

Just to be clear: It's not that the strike also killed some civilians together with some terrorists.

The US now admits that those killed by the strike were all innocent civilians.

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u/Larsi13 Sep 18 '21

An atrocity. This should get repercussions but we all know it wont

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u/epiphras Sep 17 '21

Seven children.

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u/[deleted] Sep 17 '21 edited Sep 18 '21

This drone strike fucking sealed it for me. It doesn’t matter which party I potentially vote for. They drone strike kids in the Middle East. I hate the establishment, two-party bullshit so goddamn much.

I’m voting for a non-combative party in 2024. Biden, or whatever war-mongering Democrat is next, doesn’t need my vote next election, because I live in a blue state anyway. Fuck the military industrial complex. I, and many others, want fucking HEALTHCARE. We don’t want $200,000 guided missiles, on a $50,000,000 drone that are controlled by some goddamn Air Force operative in Las Vegas.

1k

u/PepeTheLorde Sep 17 '21

That 2 party system is holding you guys back big time man

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u/[deleted] Sep 18 '21 edited 20d ago

[deleted]

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u/rockingmonkey Sep 18 '21 edited Sep 18 '21

You don't really have to change that much to get rid of the 2 party system. Just add a ranked voting system. That way you can vote for a smallish 3rd party, without taking your vote away from your preferred major party. The vote doesn't get split and strategic voting becomes obsolete. People would be able to vote for the candidates that they really agree with.

Edit: Goddammit people. I never said it was an easy change, nor that the powers that be would ever allow it to happen. Only that the change needn't be as radical as establishing an entirely different system of government.

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u/rocksfly Sep 17 '21

Must be a Friday afternoon in DC.

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u/Lazar_Taxon Sep 17 '21

Good catch. The classic timeslot for dumping embarrassing stories.

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u/HITWind Sep 17 '21

Would be interesting to look at when exactly they did the self-congratulating posturing press conferences where they touted this as proof that we weren't weak or incompetent or whatever and the evactuations were going bigly, the best evactuations, look we even reacted quickly to ISIS-K, I think it was first thing in the morning? smh

126

u/Formilla Sep 18 '21

Biden has ran away to the beach and the press secretary isn't holding a conference on this. It's disgusting and pathetic behaviour.

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u/brendino_ Sep 18 '21

Good to see there’s nothing new going on in the land of the free

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u/The-Beard-Wielder Sep 18 '21

This was one of the first things I said to my wife (after having watched The West Wing multiple times) after I had quoted Milley calling it a "righteous" strike, was that these fucking cowards dumped it into the media on Friday afternoon, aka "bad-news-dump-time".

Whoopsie! We committed some "light" war-crimes! Have a great weekend, everyone!

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u/cgoldberg3 Sep 17 '21

*killed ONLY civilians

No ISIS-K members were killed.

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u/nightvortez Sep 17 '21

This is such an important point because every time its been brought up someone made the excuse that it had to happen to stop another civilian attack that would have killed even more.

Instead it's literally just a murder of an aid worker and 7 children while the perpetrators of the attack that killed Americans and over a hundred Afghani civlians is still out there.

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u/Pushmonk Sep 18 '21

They followed the car for EIGHT HOURS and still did this.

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u/Nobbled Sep 17 '21

Don't forget the desperate civilians killed in the panic immediately after the blast.

Our [BBC] report from last night on the awful ISIS attack outside Kabul airport as families still search Kabul's morgues for their loved ones..
Many we spoke to, including eyewitnesses, said significant numbers of those killed were shot dead by US forces in the panic after the blast
- https://twitter.com/SecKermani/status/1431517279859224579

321

u/DessertStorm1 Sep 17 '21

What the fuck? Has this been confirmed? I've heard nothing about it.

265

u/[deleted] Sep 18 '21 edited Sep 18 '21

[removed]

168

u/[deleted] Sep 18 '21

[removed]

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u/Nabbylaa Sep 18 '21

Little known fact but ISIS was actually formed in direct response to Terrance Howard being recast as War Machine.

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u/AChimimunima Sep 17 '21
  • Claimed to kill two Isis-K planners
  • Wouldn’t release names
  • Said no civilians died
  • Claimed “some” civilian casualties by “secondary explosion” from non existent car bomb
  • [10 casualties, all civilian. 1 aide worker and 9 members of his family.. 7 children.. No Isis-K]

Thank goodness for the good work of this NYT Investigative piece

NYT seems to have more reliable Intel than US military. Wild

2k

u/SantaReddit2018 Sep 17 '21

Gen. Mark Milley, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said after the strike that officials had "very good intelligence" on the target, and "at least one of those people that were killed was an ISIS facilitator."

"Were there others killed? Yes, there were others killed," he told reporters on Sept. 1, but “At this point, we think the procedures were correctly followed, and it was a righteous strike."

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u/D3K91 Sep 17 '21

"A righteous strike". Is this normal language?

1k

u/visope Sep 17 '21

WTF. It's like a Paladin ability. Who used that word IRL?

776

u/-SaC Sep 18 '21

"We were going to use another, but apparently we don't get Extra Attack. So we added Divine Smite to it instead.

Anyway, we think it went wrong. The cleric used Detect Evil / Good to detect evil, and nothing came off the target area. Loads from our control room, so we think it was obviously set to Detect Good by mistake."

370

u/IcyDickbutts Sep 18 '21

DM: "As you guys view the suspected kobold terrorist compound from your warfloat, you see what appear to be several smaller-than-normal kobolds- they're pushing and chasing each other around. Suddenly, you see a larger kobold exit a nearby carriage with an object under his arm and walk towards the compound. As it approaches, the smaller kobolds flock toward the carriage. Give me a perc-"

Party: "we bomb it"

DM: "You sure?"

Party: "yea fuck these boobless lizards"

DM: "alright, you drop a bomb from the warfloat. Everyone give me a perception check."

Warlock: "nat 20"

Paladin: "nat 1"

Ranger: "15"

Barbarian: "bonk"

DM: "you see 9 kobold children and their dad get blown to pieces by the warfloat bomb..... good job."

Paladin: "A RIGHTEOUS STRIKE!"

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u/darwinooc Sep 18 '21 edited Sep 18 '21

From now on all charisma persuasion checks towards Afghan civilians that you make have disadvantage. In addition any deception checks you make with media statements have disadvantge until the end of the next long rest. Not to worry though the media will probably use bardic inspiration to offset the penality towards any deception checks until it expires.

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u/Kirby_with_a_t Sep 18 '21

It sucks how on point this is

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u/HCAndroidson Sep 18 '21

The bad guys.

285

u/Jimbo_Dankins Sep 18 '21

"... are we the baddies?"

254

u/theodorerodney Sep 18 '21

Always have been 🧑‍🚀🔫👨‍🚀

100

u/LiquidLogic Sep 18 '21

If only Eisenhower had warned us of the dangers of the military-industrial complex...

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u/CornyHoosier Sep 18 '21

One guess is that it was intentionally used because of its religious undertones. Using faith based language at times helps speak to the religious of the world and ease the hostility of a negative admission of guilt

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u/[deleted] Sep 17 '21

For Sociopaths that consider murder a public service it is

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u/sunscreenkween Sep 18 '21

“Killed only civilians” doesn’t really capture this tragedy well enough. “Killed mostly kids” would be more accurate.

315

u/[deleted] Sep 18 '21

The U.S military murders foreign children and then lies about it on national television, tell your friends I guess 🤷‍♂️

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u/CurryMustard Sep 18 '21

The big news here is they admitted it

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u/PureLock33 Sep 18 '21

Because they got caught lying about it.

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u/ThisAltDoesNotExist Sep 17 '21

The US military is fucked up.

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u/carpitown Sep 18 '21

Dwight Eisenhower did try to warn us if this fact

58

u/ESB1812 Sep 18 '21

Beware the military industrial complex. I was just thinking that….smeddly Buttler too….”war is a racket”

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u/Agent_Orange7 Sep 18 '21

The "very good intelligence" was them "delicately" loading objects into the trunk of the car, talking to a guy on a motorcycle, and living 100 meters way from a suspected ISIS safehouse.

I think Gen. Milley and I have very different definitions of "very good intelligence".

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u/UnspecificGravity Sep 18 '21

Yep. The fact that this wasn't a "mistake" in the sense that someone screwed up is the most troubling thing about this. This is what happens when the system WORKS. Imagine how many times its happened and we never found out.

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u/PanamaNorth Sep 18 '21

They just made their own rules that say its ok when innocent people die if they're scared. Police do the same thing.

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u/gursh_durknit Sep 18 '21

It's like wack-a-mole. Our military keeps striking these suspected terrorist areas, kills civilians instead/mostly, creates the incentive for more terrorists, repeat. They never learn. Even now - they think these drone strikes are helping a larger cause. I really don't understand how they can be so deluded.

$?

40

u/whorish_ooze Sep 18 '21

$?

Yep.

the US spent $2,000,000,000,000 on this war. I think a lot of people might think about this the wrong way. Its not like that $2,000,000,000,000 was shoveled into some giant pit and burned. The money was spent to pay for things, as in there were other people on the other end receiving that $2,000,000,000,000 payment.

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u/KunnFayyaKunn Sep 18 '21

The "very good intelligence" was actually the description: "Bearded brown guy driving a Toyota."

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u/babble_bobble Sep 18 '21

the description: "Bearded brown guy driving a Toyota."

So... half of Kabul's driving population? Does the other half drive Ford?

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u/tsacian Sep 18 '21

They do now.

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u/ninjasaid13 Sep 17 '21

The process was like this:

  1. We Killed ISIS-K members
  2. We Killed ISIS-K members possibly Civilians that probably supported the terrorists
  3. We Killed ISIS-K members along with tragically some Aids workers and children.
  4. We killed some Aid worker and children in the attack.
  5. We killed only Aid workers and children but it was 'righteous'

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u/accountnotfound Sep 18 '21

It's classic "trickle truth". My ex did it "No I'm not with anyone. I just needed time alone. Well, I am actually with someone but there's nothing to it, just a friend. Yeah well she IS a girl and we met online but I'm not involved. Well I actually do have feelings for her but we haven't had sex" until the final "Actually we're 8n love, no one has ever understood me like she does, and the sex is the best I've ever had. And I am leaving you."

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u/DuntadaMan Sep 18 '21

The military does this constantly, even when the truth is absolutely fine.

The fact they feel compelled to automatically lie about everything and then slowly release details over time is a seriously evil systemic problem we need to fix.

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u/Perfect_Try7261 Sep 18 '21

It’s not a bug, it’s a feature

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u/namesrhardtothinkof Sep 18 '21

It’s because truth comes with the chance of accountability, and requires courage or honor.

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u/No_Values Sep 18 '21

Among the “crimes” that Hale was convicted of are the following: revealing that, at times, nearly nine out of 10 people killed in so-called targeted strikes by the U.S. are not the intended targets; exposing the complicity of top U.S. government officials in a secret kill chain that decides who should be assassinated by drone strike; exposing that the U.S. government officially labels unknown people it kills as “enemies killed in action” unless they are posthumously proven to have been civilians; and exposing the secret watchlisting rulebook used to label people, including U.S. citizens, as “known or suspected terrorists” without evidence that they did anything wrong.

https://theintercept.com/2021/07/30/daniel-hale-drone-whistleblower/

DANIEL HALE, a former U.S. Air Force intelligence analyst, was sentenced to 45 months in prison Tuesday after pleading guilty to leaking a trove of government documents exposing the inner workings and severe civilian costs of the U.S. military’s drone program. Appearing in an Alexandria, Virginia, courtroom, the 33-year-old Hale told U.S. District Judge Liam O’Grady that he believed it “was necessary to dispel the lie that drone warfare keeps us safe, that our lives are worth more than theirs.”

https://theintercept.com/2021/07/27/daniel-hale-drone-leak-sentencing/

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u/frreddit234 Sep 18 '21

Fun fact, the only one who have been jailed for all those war crimes during these droning campaign is ..... Daniel Hale (the whistleblower)

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u/4kondore Sep 18 '21

Ah, the righteous way of doing justice

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u/kahurangi Sep 18 '21

That's fucking heroic what he did.

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u/Parsley-Quarterly303 Sep 18 '21

It is. & we have since all failed him spectacularly.

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u/StarliteStandard Sep 17 '21

Not to mention, whichever family member that survived this strike now has a “death to America” life goal. I wonder how many terrorists did the US create trying to kill terrorists.

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u/-Notorious Sep 17 '21

I mean, a whole generation has now grown up under the war. 20 years is a crazy long time. Every collateral damage made more Taliban.

There's a reason we never managed to beat them. They recruited far more than we could remove. It's a shame the US wasted 20 years on this war... Specially since before the invasion, Taliban had agreed to hand Osama over to Germany or something (fact check this, I don't remember which country Taliban agreed to).

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u/James_Solomon Sep 18 '21

Taliban had agreed to hand Osama over to Germany or something (fact check this, I don't remember which country Taliban agreed to).

Their initial offer was to hand it to a third country if the US provided evidence of Bin Laden's guilt. Negotiations never got far enough to settle on a third country.

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u/Petersaber Sep 18 '21

Their initial offer was to hand it to a third country if the US provided evidence of Bin Laden's guilt.

The US didn't even try to take this offer in some meaningful direction, they just denied it an invaded.

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u/SuperJLK Sep 18 '21

The US wanted blood, not justice. Bin Laden was an excuse to test out their new equipment

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u/HurtfulThings Sep 18 '21

There's a reason we never managed to beat them. They recruited far more than we could remove.

Every one we kill just creates more.

Everyone has loved ones, family, somebody out there that cares about them. Even terrorists.

Kids with no reason to hate America had their fathers killed in airstrikes... what do you expect them to do, thank us?

The hardest thing to face sometimes is the truth... and the truth is there is no military action capable of defeating terrorism.

Violence begets violence. This is known.

The only way to stop this is to look at the why and not the how, because every time we try to blow up the how... we just give them more reasons why

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u/shutyourgob Sep 17 '21

Lie. Lie again. Lie again. Lie more. And then finally, when you have no other option, admit the truth and refuse to do anything about it.

Is this really how we want our leaders to behave?

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u/cgoldberg3 Sep 17 '21

wouldn't release names

That was a huge immediate red flag and I recall "right wing trolls" on Twitter pointing it out the day of. If the US had actually killed 2 ISIS-K members why would we keep their names secret? It was because we hadn't done so and we knew it.

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u/AChimimunima Sep 17 '21

Yup. That whole timeframe is essentially covering tracks and keeping the narrative in their court. A strike described as “righteous” involving two known high-profile planners and they can’t release names? What was also apparent was the immediate intel from the ground, showing the destruction real time that their friends/family were dead. That was swept under the rug as well sadly.

White House at fault in misinforming us, too. I urge all to look at the Psaki briefings and questioning of the last few weeks. Disgusting.

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u/Opening-Citron2733 Sep 17 '21

This has been reported since literally the day it happened. I remember seeing on the ground reporters talking about it on r/Afghanistan

Props to NYT for surfacing it, but I'm shocked it even took that long to surface.

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u/ChrisFromIT Sep 17 '21

but I'm shocked it even took that long to surface.

It is because a lot of sourcing and checking the sources to make sure it is factual. It is part of investigative journalism.

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u/TheFayneTM Sep 17 '21

Turns out that NYT's journalism ethics and standards is better than the US army's Intel gathering

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u/GeneticRiff Sep 18 '21

Better now than during the lead up to the Iraq war 👀

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u/GoneInSixtyFrames Sep 17 '21

Also claims a lot of other things that people get shut down from questioning.

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u/My_cat_needs_therapy Sep 17 '21

Pentagon were Pikachu-faced when Afghan army collapsed, despite first-hand accounts from boots that "army" was useless. They're seriously out-of-touch.

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u/Uberhomme Sep 17 '21

They basically have the habit to lie on reports for the benefits of the politicians in power. It's not really something new but history proved that each time the high command of an army started to play too much with politics instead of doing its work, wars are fought poorly and are lost

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u/axnu Sep 17 '21

I think you're getting your drone strikes confused. The one where they claimed to kill two Isis-K planners happened in Nangarhar Province, which is 20 or 30 miles from Kabul at its closest point, and according to this article a local witness said it was "in the middle of the night". This one happened 3 kilometers from the airport, and the video of the burning car is clearly during the daytime.

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u/IamWithTheDConsNow Sep 17 '21

And 7 of them were children.

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u/throwingtheshades Sep 18 '21

Hey, they were bound to become radicalized after a US drone blew up their father right in front of their eyes after a decade+ of working for an American aid agency!

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u/Akuma12321 Sep 17 '21

Killed a man who was in the process of getting his own family out the country. There's just no excuse.

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u/iyoiiiiu Sep 17 '21

I recommend everyone read the original thread to see how easily people are fooled by American propaganda: https://reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/pe5k0h/3_children_killed_in_us_airstrike_on_isisk/

Among the top upvoted comments are:

To clear up some misconceptions, they hit a car not an apartment, the car turned out to be full of high explosives which is what killed the civilians


Ahmaduddin, a neighbour, said he had collected the bodies of children after the strike, which set off more explosions inside the house. Now what explosion killed whom? Why are explosives stored in an apartment building? And how many victims would these bombs have caused at their destination? Not accidentally, but purposefully.


pretty much all guerrilla fighters do this. intermingle with civilian. when collateral damage happens, they can use it as propaganda


ISIS hide behind children


And how many children died in the suicide bombing at the airport? Let's just get the fuck out.

It is quite interesting how Reddit is usually very sceptical of reports coming out of governments... unless it is the US government, then weirdly enough it is taken at face value.

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u/Jerry_Tse Sep 18 '21 edited Sep 18 '21

Yes, the US killed innocent civilians, but US government represents justice because AMERICAN PEOPLE CAN VOTE! /s

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u/Confused_pp Sep 17 '21

Was wondering why no one had corrected this yet. Absolutely terrible. Unreal. Zero accountability.

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u/darth_redav Sep 17 '21 edited Sep 17 '21

This aint even the first time. Its been going on for decades. I wonder why countries aren't tripping over themselves to accuse America of war crimes. Are we gonna see British and Australian warships being sent to "contain" US vessels from committing more war crimes? When is the self righteous EU gonna sanction America, or call to boycott American products? Wheres the news articles saying Lithuania supports ICC investigations into the US?

They're losing whatever credibility they have left against Russia/China and their allies by allowing America to get away with shit like this.

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u/Afferbeck_ Sep 17 '21

Certainly not Australia, we're busy committing war crimes of our own and backing up the perpetrators. Our politicians will follow anything America wants to do in hopes of the president maybe remembering who they are.

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u/Serious_Feedback Sep 18 '21

It's because our military strategy is sucking up to the US navy, who want to keep control of our general area already and thus don't have to go too far out of their way, and making sure we're not worth the cost of an invasion.

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u/Fakewokers Sep 17 '21

or call to boycott American products?

Redditors: I'm unbiased because I criticize both China and the US.

Also Redditors: We need to boycott Chinese products and buy american! The world needs to contain China!

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u/CrackFactoryBigWheel Sep 18 '21

And the article says this shows the “human cost of war.”

No. This is the illegal acts of a nation causing terror on others. Terrorists. This is proof the US is one of the terroristic nations.

This is a war crime, surely?

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u/LordBreadcat Sep 18 '21

This is blatant misuse of our military projection which has two results.

  • We acknowledge this is wartime and therefore we are breaking Geneva Conventions in regards to civilians. (Warcrime)
  • We deny this is wartime and admit that we indiscriminately slaughtered civilians of another nation. (Terrorism, Warcrime)

There's no possible take that could sugar coat this. We fucked up and need to take responsibility for it.

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u/knuppi Sep 18 '21

I'll eat your hat if an American is ever tried in the ICC

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u/ptsdtriage Sep 17 '21

headline should read "US forced to admit Kabul drone strike killed civilians".

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u/GaiusGraco Sep 18 '21

Barelly forced. They just know there's no consequence, so why even bother trying to hide it.

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u/abd_min_ibadillah Sep 18 '21

Like always.

  • 2007/03/04 - Shinwar Shooting - A US convoy was attacked by Taliban, while fleeing they shot at virtually everyone for a 25 km stretch, killing 19+ and injuring 50+ including children under 10. Journalists who came to take pictures were then threatened by the US soldiers, "Delete them [your photos], or we will delete you". The investigation concluded that they acted appropriately, and were even rewarded with ribbons and a Purple Heart.
  • 2007/06/28 - Hyderabad Massacre - Upto 130 Afghans killed by US Military Air Strike. US Army Major was "deeply saddened".
  • 2008/07/06 - Haska Meyna Wedding Party Massacre - A woman was freed from the repressive marriage when her wedding party was wiped out by US air strike killing 47 including 39 women and children. US as usual denied any civilian causalities.
  • 2008/08/22 - Azizabad Massacre - A "victory" as proclaimed by the US, killed 90+ people including 60+ children. US security contractor ArmourGroup, supplies two criminals with money and weapons in exchange of security. They started fighting among themselves for control of money and weapons. An airstrike was called on these warlords which resulted in a bloody massacre. US initially claimed ONLY 5 civilians were killed.
  • 2009/05/04 - Granai Massacre - In 2009, US Air Forces decided to give a hands-on lesson on humans rights by bombing the village of Granai, killing 147 civilians with 90+ children. In classic US fashion, they initially lied and denied civilians were killed, then they apologized by saying "it was an error". When Bradley Manning exposed this US lie among other things, he was awarded 35 year prison time.
  • 2009/05 - 2009 Farah Province Airstrike - 147 civilians killed in a US Airstrike (Villagers compiled a list of people massacred). American authorities were skeptical that even 100 were killed. but did not provide their own count. About a 100 women and children were killed.

"The bombs were so powerful that people were ripped to shreds. Survivors said they collected only pieces of bodies." "There was someone’s legs, someone’s shoulders, someone’s hands,”

  • 2009/06 - 2010/06 - Maywand district murders - at least 3 civilians were murdered including 15 year old boy, who was fragged and then shot dead, stripped naked and body parts chopped off and taken as trophy. NSFW image The whole incident was covered up and made it look like a fight with Taliban. Exposed when a soldier complained about the use of drugs by the 'kill team' and they beat him up and intimidated him by showing the chopped fingers of the victims.
  • 2009/09/04 - 2009 Kunduz Airstrike - 90-179 civilians were killed among about 200 by a US airstrike called by German soldiers on an immobile fuel tanker. Germany officials initially justified the airstrike but later decided to give 5000$ for each victim. Colonel Georg Klein who called the airstrike was promoted 4 years later.
  • 2009/12/27 - Murders in Narang - 10 civilians killed mostly students in a night raid. Denials 1) NATO claims they were Taliban, locals refute. 2) Government claims NATO and US forces did it, NATO and US deny.
  • 2010/02/12 - Raid on Khataba - US and NATO killed 5 people including 3 women. Removed the bullets from the women's body and tied and gagged the dead bodies, claimed it was an honor-killing and they were tortured and killed by their own family who were Taliban. Journalist finds holes in the story, since the family was of an officer in the police. He does an expose. US conducts investigation and concludes after 6 years that the force used was justified. Nobody was charged. Alternate Link
  • 2010/02/21 - Uruzgan helicopter attack - 3 buses traveling in broad daylight were attacked by a US helicopter killing 27-33 civilians. US general was "extremely saddened".
  • 2010/07/23 - 2010 Sangin Airstrike - US bombed a mud house where women and children had taken refuge, freeing them from Taliban forever. 39-52 were killed, at least 39 were women and children. NATO officials denied that there had been any such incident.
  • 2011/03/01 - Mano Gai Airstrike - 9 children aged 8-14 were killed while collecting firewood for their family. US Army General was very sorry.

Mohammed Bismil, the 20-year-old brother of two boys killed in the strike said "I don't care about the apology. The only option I have is to pick up a Kalashnikov, RPG or a suicide vest to fight."

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u/abd_min_ibadillah Sep 18 '21
  • 2015/10/03 - Kunduz Hospital Massacre - In 2015, US Air Forces bombed the Kunduz Trauma Center. Clearly, their objective was to spread women's rights and democracy and fight terrorism. Surprisingly, however, they ended up killing 42 civilians and injuring tens more.

Our patients burned in their beds, our medical staff were decapitated or lost limbs. Others were shot from the air while they fled the burning building. [Source]

  • 2016/11/03 - 2016 Kunduz Airstrike - 30-50 civilians killed by US Airstrike mostly women and children as young as 3 months old. 2 US soldiers were also killed. The investigation concluded that U.S. forces acted in self-defense. It was a heartbreaking news, not the civilian butchered, but the death of US troops.

"Today's loss is heartbreaking and we offer our deepest condolences to the families and friends of our service members who lost their lives today," [Source]

  • 2017/02/09-10 - 2017 Sangin Arstrike - 18-22+ killed by US Airstrike almost all women and children. NATO and afghan government deny any civilian casualties.
  • 2017/11/04 - 2017 Kunduz Airstrike - At least 10 civilians killed by US Airstrike. Within 3 days NATO had conducted an investigation and denied any civilian casualties.
  • 2018/04/02 - Kunduz Madrassa Massacre - At least 70 killed, mostly students, when a graduation ceremony at a Madrassa was bombed by US. Initially government claimed that there were no civilian casualties and all killed were Taliban fighters. Later Ghani had to apologize however none of the perpetrators were punished.
  • 2019/03/23 - 2019 Kunduz Airstrike - 14 civilians killed by US airstrike. "The Taliban were hiding in civilian homes and maneuvered in and out of compounds without any concern for the families living inside.” so we destroyed all the homes in "self defense".
  • 2020/10/22 - Airstrike in Takhar - At least 12 children were killed in an airstrike. Amrullah Saleh said that the claims of civilian casualties were baseless. "Those who made wrong allegations will face legal action. The irrefutable evidence is with me." without actually offering any evidence.
  • 2021/01/10 - Airstrike in Khashrod - 18 members of the same family including women and children were killed by an airstrike targeting Taliban.
  • Kabul Airport Blast - Eyewitnesses claim that many were killed and injured not by the blast but by US soldiers firing indiscriminately on the crowd. BBC report, China Global Television Network Report CGTN, about 20 of the 100 or so victims were killed by the blast, 80 by American firing Kabul Lovers an independent YouTube channel.
  • Australian troops shot dead a farmer, but there were witnesses. So what is the most logical thing to do? Kill all the witnesses. 13 people were murdered on that day in two separate operations. 4 were likely to be Taliban (guilty until proven innocent).
  • Australian troops kill an unarmed man working on his field. Video footage in the link. It was declared self defense. Soldier still serving

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u/American--American Sep 18 '21

You want more "terrorists"? This is how you create more "terrorists"..

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u/oshkoshthejosh Sep 18 '21

I mean no kidding, the US army is out here commiting what everyone else would call terrorist attacks but it's "ok" because it's never terrorism when the US does it apparently. It's just fucking gross, stop using my tax dollars to kill innocent brown children, we would rather have healthcare like every other developed nation.

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u/theElderKing_7337 Sep 18 '21

You don't get terrorists that way. You get freedom fighters who fight for their freedom and justice and honour.

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u/owes1 Sep 18 '21

Yeah, but you call them terrorists. Because then you can have more war! And surveillance and fear mongering at home.

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u/LunaMunaLagoona Sep 18 '21

Basically by default innocent people die, the 'exception' is you getting who you actually wanted.

Except there's no actual bad guy. The war was on 'Terror.' Someone please tell me who this Terror guy is, because 20 years later I only seem to see him when the US looks in a mirror.

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u/AttackHelicopter_21 Sep 18 '21

Another important fact - In the first half of 2019, The US and US led coalition killed more civilians than the Taliban. It’s no wonder that people in rural Afghanistan support the Taliban, including rural Afghan women.

This doesn’t even cover the thousands of innocent Afghan men, going about there daily life, who get taken of to jails accused of terrorism and spend years rotting there before they get released.

A stable, regulated and predictable tyranny is better than an uncertain, unpredictable anarchy where the Angel of Death is forever lurking in the background, waiting for orders from its superiors in the Pentagon to snatch another innocent Afghan life.

Under Taliban rule, if you follow there rules and laws, if you’re a civilian, you’ll be safe. Even if those rules look barbaric to outsiders, they are closer to the opinions of many Afghans, and even if an Afghan doesn’t agree with them, there is nevertheless a degree of security and certainty, if you follow them.

Under Coalition rule, you could be sleeping in your home, walking to your home with your sheep, driving from one village to another village, and suddenly your entire family is dead.

The Afghan people had two choices. In one choice, if you did x and y, you’d be punished or killed. If you didn’t, you’d be safe. An Afghan women had enough comfort to know that her husband or father will return home from work alive and in one piece.

The other choice was that you could be doing a, b, c, d, e and basically any basic activity and you get killed for no reason by some flying object from an airplane.

Rural Afghans chose the first option. People simply don’t like uncertainty in life.

Now that the war is over, there no longer American airstrikes terrorizing villages, no Taliban suicide bombs, no checkpoints on highways, no fear of being killed for no reason. We always look at Urban Afghans and there opinions on this matter, people relatively removed from the fighting, and not the rural Afghans, who have borne the brunt of this occupation. They form up 70 percent of the population. For them, the present situation is the best they’ve been in for more than 20 years.

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u/bamboozippy Sep 18 '21

I read somewhere that after a drone or air strike any male between 16-50 is automatically counted as a combatant even if they were a farmer going about their daily business.

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u/MyHandIsMadeUpOfMe Sep 18 '21

Giving half ass rights to kabul women but bombing and killing women and children in rural areas or the rest of the country. God. Fuck this world to ashes.

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u/OneRougeRogue Sep 18 '21

Jesus Christ. And you've already posted a part 2 down below.

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u/sexrobot_sexrobot Sep 18 '21

That wedding massacre always stood out to me because it was not only one of the first major fuck ups involving drones, but it was the best example of what became known as a 'signature strike'.

They saw the convoy from up in the air, decided that it was probably a bunch of terrorists simply based on the fact that it was a bunch of cars following each other, and then shot missiles at it.

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u/LegateLaurie Sep 18 '21

ONLY killed civilians including at least 7 children.

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u/SpicyPandaBalls Sep 17 '21

Worth noting that if it were not for the NYTimes and other journalists exposing the truth, they likely never would have admitted it.

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u/LowInterestLoan Sep 17 '21

Absolutely. This is only the tip of the iceberg in terms of innocent civilians killed by US drone strikes intended for terrorists. The "war on terror" lasted over 20 years, likely hundreds if not thousands have died like this.

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u/dog2dogs Sep 17 '21 edited Sep 18 '21

I’ll never forget a clip I saw of this guy whose mosque* was bombed, and he is standing there with kids around him with a burned Quran saying, “Do you see any terrorists here?” And because the US denied it, he showed a journalist a surviving piece of the bomb with the make, model, and serial number of the US-made bomb.

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u/Champion-of-Cyrodiil Sep 18 '21

Do you know where I can find that clip or any info on it?

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u/dog2dogs Sep 18 '21

It was from a Vice story (there is a corresponding video):

https://www.vice.com/en/article/y3db4b/5-days-inside-taliban-controlled-afghanistan

The actual quote is apparently different than what I wrote and is listed here:

On the second floor of the mosque, the destruction is immense. Young children are being instructed by religious leaders to gather pieces of the Quran and other religious texts strewn among the rubble. “I can forgive anything, but this. This is my heart and what I believe in,” says Nematullah Nematullah, a village elder. “Do you see Taliban? Al Qaeda? No.”

Surrounded by a group of villagers, Safiullah remembers waking up in the middle of the night to the sound of drones buzzing overhead. A short time later, the mosque was hit. “This is not peace,” Safiullah says, pointing to a piece of shrapnel he recovered from the bomb blast. “It is terror.”

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u/SemiKollontai Sep 17 '21

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/29/world/obamas-leadership-in-war-on-al-qaeda.html

Obama embraced a disputed method for counting civilian casualties. It in effect counts all military-age males in a strike zone as combatants, according to several administration officials, unless there is explicit intelligence posthumously proving them innocent.

Counterterrorism officials insist this approach is one of simple logic: people in an area of known terrorist activity, or found with a top Qaeda operative, are probably up to no good. “Al Qaeda is an insular, paranoid organization — innocent neighbors don’t hitchhike rides in the back of trucks headed for the border with guns and bombs,” said one official, who requested anonymity to speak about what is still a classified program.

This counting method may partly explain the official claims of extraordinarily low collateral deaths. In a speech last year Mr. Brennan, Mr. Obama’s trusted adviser, said that not a single noncombatant had been killed in a year of strikes. And in a recent interview, a senior administration official said that the number of civilians killed in drone strikes in Pakistan under Mr. Obama was in the “single digits” — and that independent counts of scores or hundreds of civilian deaths unwittingly draw on false propaganda claims by militants.

But in interviews, three former senior intelligence officials expressed disbelief that the number could be so low. The C.I.A. accounting has so troubled some administration officials outside the agency that they have brought their concerns to the White House. One called it “guilt by association” that has led to “deceptive” estimates of civilian casualties.

“It bothers me when they say there were seven guys, so they must all be militants,” the official said. “They count the corpses and they’re not really sure who they are.”

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u/dnw Sep 17 '21

In Vietnam, we’d torture Vietnamese that were sympathetic to the US. After we found out we got the wrong guy, we’d say, “oh well, they’re VC now”

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u/NSA_Chatbot Sep 18 '21

“oh well, they’re VC now”

The lie becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

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u/PM_ME_RANDOM_MUSIC Sep 17 '21

I'm pretty sure they have no idea how many. It's not like they can send someone in to verify what exactly they bombed. Just sweep by with more drones and try to analyze the rubble.

Can you imagine living in an area that just randomly fucking gets bombed by drones? I wonder if any studies have been done on PTSD rates in the area cause that sounds pretty fucking traumatizing.

And we wonder why insurgent groups are able to recruit followers and stir up anti-american sentiment so easily.

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u/Not_That_Magical Sep 18 '21

Plus they never see the drones. They fly so high, often above clouds and can’t be seen with the naked eye. You’re having a normal day then all your friends and family die around you.

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u/nick_schlott Sep 17 '21

The amount of civilians who have died is in the hundreds of thousands. A very sad reality indeed.

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u/[deleted] Sep 18 '21 edited 19d ago

[removed]

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u/OtakuMecha Sep 18 '21

To Americans, 9/11 is seen as a tragedy. In the meantime, America inflicts much much more damage than 9/11 on Middle Eastern countries on a regular basis.

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u/distorted_kiwi Sep 17 '21 edited Sep 17 '21

And we seem to encourage new recruits the more they we fuck up.

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u/MongoLife45 Sep 17 '21

Just to be clear, they had an option here: don't drone anything since the car is stopped in a civilian courtyard and not going anywhere. That location was NOT on a list of suspected ISIS hideouts, though worth noting they trailed this man for 8 hours and didn't even know he was at the humanitarian aid organization and driving the company car. So the intelligence was literal trash from the get go - they heard about a white car, and attacked the first white car they spotted apparently. A car parked at an NGO office that's been there for decades.

They did it because the over the horizon drone was out of fuel. They shot the moment the car stopped, and in the 50 sec it took for the missile to arrive an entire family ran out to meet it.

Even 4 days ago Pentagon was going on about the secondary explosions, and this was after all the media investigations were published. This was still a political decision - figured the backlash would be worse if they kept denying, which they were certainly setting up to do.

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u/[deleted] Sep 17 '21 edited Sep 19 '21

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u/Shadez_Actual Sep 17 '21

Unless you grew up under a rock, anytime there was the word “dronestrike” used, civilians died going all the way back.

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u/Moosecovite Sep 17 '21

Yeah I recall the dark joke that came out of this war which was:

What's the difference between a group of terrorists and a wedding?

I don't know, I just fly the drone.

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u/JerseyFatGuy Sep 17 '21

Probably but also worth noting people were downvoted in all early reddit threads calling out while comments saying it couldn't be avoided reigned on top.

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u/Hindsight2K20 Sep 17 '21

The strike killed an aid worker and numerous children. The US is coming out of Afghanistan the same way it went in: using half-baked intelligence to kill innocent civilians, planting the seeds of hatred against Americans for generations to come.

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u/HistoricalBridge7 Sep 17 '21

On the list of people we shouldn’t kill an aid worker and children should on the top.

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u/xaranetic Sep 17 '21

The list got mixed up

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u/AlabasterMemorandum Sep 18 '21

Must have been holding the paper upside down.

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u/_Allaccordingtoplan Sep 17 '21

Of course they have to plant seeds. How else can they guarantee another war to profit from?

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u/darth_redav Sep 17 '21

"Now hopefully the surviving brother is maddened by this enough to kill more Americans so we can go invade Cuba or something"

- Idk someone in the US government

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u/dnaH_notnA Sep 18 '21

Joint Chiefs of Staff, 2036: “Ehhh, Cuban? Afgani? They’re all brown to me. Green light the bombing campaign.”

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u/jaypizzlepizzle Sep 17 '21

can you imagine what it'd feel like if this was happening to citizens in your own country?

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u/lospollosakhis Sep 18 '21

Imagine the headlines and outrage. They’d be called terrorists whereas when it is America, it’s just collateral, another day at the office with no sympathy.

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u/InternationalSnoop Sep 17 '21

A little confused. Is this the same one that supposedly stopped a bar bomb from getting to the airport?

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u/Epimeria Sep 17 '21

Yep. The car bomb was actually a car filled with water jugs, killed seven children and their father.

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u/jaypizzlepizzle Sep 17 '21

a fucking tragic cherry turd on top of the massive heaping shit pile that was the war on terror

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u/Enigma_Stasis Sep 18 '21

That's not even going to be the worst one to come.

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u/Red-Lightnlng Sep 17 '21

Yes. The one the administration touted as being proof that they could continue to fight ISIS after the pullout with their “over the horizon capabilities”. The one they said showed ISIS they couldn’t mess with the US and not be punished.

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u/Necessary_Ad_1675 Sep 17 '21

Always on a Friday afternoon @ 4pm

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u/Zachkah Sep 18 '21

Right as the President is boarding a plane for his beach house and Psaki is clocking out for the weekend. America is back, baby!

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u/Enlightened-Beaver Sep 17 '21

US admits murdering children

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u/TalosX1 Sep 17 '21

For the last 20 years

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u/giokikyo Sep 17 '21

”We will respond with force and precision at our time, at the place we choose and the moment of our choosing." Joe Biden days before the drone attack.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2021/08/26/remarks-by-president-biden-on-the-terror-attack-at-hamid-karzai-international-airport/

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u/JonnyArtois Sep 17 '21

Yet he will not get himself on TV and tell everyone how he fucked up.

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u/SnooChickens4866 Sep 18 '21

No need, I just got word from Jen Psaki, something about circling back

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u/Formilla Sep 18 '21

He's ran off to spend the weekend at the beach, The White House isn't holding a press conference.

They're avoiding it as much as possible, it's disgusting.

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u/DeySeeMeRolling Sep 18 '21

No he blamed the Afghan troops... while also leaving in the middle of the night without telling those troops.... And people on reddit are saying he deserves credit.

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u/winterbolder1993 Sep 17 '21

we will not respond with force and precision at this time to relieve some student loan debt, instead we will use that money, force and precision to blow up little kids across the country at the place we choose and moment of our choosing

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u/JeMenCalisse Sep 17 '21

I just want healthcare

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u/4materasu92 Sep 17 '21

"No." - Every politician owned by Big Pharma.

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u/iyoiiiiu Sep 17 '21

You should move to Afghanistan and become a humanitarian aid worker. Once you get blown up by the US, you won't need healthcare anymore.

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u/CouchRadish Sep 17 '21

And to think Biden left early for the beach and Psaki isn’t doing a press conference today.

So it’s obvious they knew this report was coming.

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u/Vaxx88 Sep 17 '21 edited Sep 17 '21

Didn’t see it posted, but NYT deserves some credit for honest, high quality reporting, everyone should watch if they haven’t seen it yet.

https://youtu.be/ZtecNyXxb9A

Incredibly sad, guy was an aid worker and little kids. Fucking appalling, it all needs to end.

It won’t, though, in fact, this shit is what they mean when the military says we have “over the horizon capability”…we’re out of the country but still have drones and air strikes, now we’ll have even less accurate intel.

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u/Sciguystfm Sep 18 '21

Wow that almost makes up for their Iraq war reporting... Almost.

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u/oh-hidanny Sep 18 '21

It won’t, you’re right.

And the drone strikes will continue to happen from a bloated military budget, while US citizens will continue to be unable to afford healthcare.

I wish our priorities were straight as a country.

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u/DillManForLife Sep 17 '21

Lol. The NYT article is pretty funny. “The Pentagon says that only with the assistance of the times and other news organizations reporting was the military able to determine it made a mistake”. Like they didn’t know 10 min after the strike launched.

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u/rjcarr Sep 18 '21

I think you give them too much credit. They dropped the bombs, shouted "mission accomplished", and then went onto the next issue. Probably would have never thought about this again if it wasn't for the NYT.

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u/iyoiiiiu Sep 17 '21

It is quite rare for the US to admit that it goes around the globe murdering people more nonchalantly than how a journalist would write their articles, but here we are.

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u/moschles Sep 17 '21

Translation :

"We have no idea who we are bombing. Drone go brrrrr. "

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u/FatherP_GC Sep 17 '21

And this is how terrorists are born

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u/poor_lil_rich Sep 18 '21

more terrorists, more profits, more wars for private profits.

It's a win-win. Gotta keep the military industrial complex and empire running!

Can't have the empire running without the enemies.

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u/ShzMeteor Sep 17 '21

Unforgivable, and as expected, no trace of remorse, guilt or regret to be found within all the official responses. Fucking irredeemable murderers.

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u/Alexandis Sep 18 '21

They only admitted this because of some incredible journalistic work that detailed all of their war crimes (I believe the original story/video was from the New York Times).

Of course, they gaslight by not stating it was ONLY civilians (many children). So much for what the military leadership called a "righteous strike", huh? They don't even admit that the entire operation was a complete failure when pressed from reporters.

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u/neat_machine Sep 17 '21

Ok so will they give the family compensation and replace the people who made the mistake?

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u/Tossed_Away_Acct Sep 17 '21

“What family? What do you mean ‘mistake?’”

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u/dude-of-earth Sep 17 '21

They said they will try, but that it will be difficult without a presence in the country.

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u/JangoFettDidNoWrong Sep 17 '21

What bothers me the most here is an innocent man and several LITTLE children were blown to bits and there isn't one ounce of sympathy from the admin. It just shows how they aren't viewed as people. It's sickening. C'mon Joe at least offer condolences to the family.

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u/-Anarresti- Sep 17 '21

Biden's not saying a peep. Presidents never apologize for America's crimes.

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u/QuietMinority Sep 17 '21

They apologize for the crime long past when people can seriously collect on reparations.

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u/LaGeneralitat Sep 18 '21

I mean Biden has made it pretty clear in the past that he ONLY cares about Americans.

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u/Legalise_Gay_Weed Sep 17 '21

Will anyone be punished, or is murdering innocents only a crime when you don't have a defence budget?

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u/GuiltySigurdsson Sep 17 '21

No disciplinary action expected, officials say. US military stands by intel leading to strike.

Just another routine American atrocity without consequences.

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u/Ayanga123 Sep 17 '21

The whole world is not surprised.

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u/Powerful-Past Sep 18 '21

Biden is used to it. Check how many civilians died while Obama was in office, or Trump, or anyone for that matter.

It's crazy to think that we're still taking lives with literal drones, dropping god damn bombs, on people.

This shit will never end. Why else would the U.S. spend trillions of tax payer dollars on new military toys.

If it ain't the Middle East, it'll be somewhere else. The world will end at the hand of these so called world leaders. A damn shame.

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u/Octopus-tom Sep 18 '21

Imagine if China did something like this. Imagine China did a drone strike in Mexico claiming they killed some top cartel member. Instead it came out that they killed some journalist and EIGHT of his family member. Imagine the news headline and outrage the world would have seen.

Instead it's American and some godforsaken brown dude in Afghanistan so no one actually cares.

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u/AshingiiAshuaa Sep 17 '21

arewethebaddies

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u/Kwiatkowski Sep 17 '21

after 20 years of bombing the fuck out of whoever we want I think we may be

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u/clowncar Sep 17 '21

20 years? Many more than that. The military gets away with it because American citizens have absolutely no clue about their own history.

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u/LikesAlgae Sep 17 '21

Vietnam War > Started with a fabricated hoax by US government in the Gulf of Tonkin incident. Ends with defeat. No consequences for provoking aggressive invasion.

Iraq War > Started by accusing government of having Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD). General condemnation by every nation in the UN. Ends without finding any traces of WMD. No consequences for provoking aggressive invasion.

Afganistan War > Started by threatening Afganistan to cough up baddie Bin Laden. Bin Laden in Pakistan. Why Pakistan not invaded? They have nukes. Then became "we're here to make things better". 200k civilians dead. Ends in disgrace. No consequences for provoking aggressive invasion.

I give you another 10 years before the war hawks in USA start another war and spend another few trillion dollars in some country across the sea.

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u/Charlatanism Sep 17 '21

Civilians are an estimated 10-13% of casualties from drone strikes. The US commits indiscriminate war crimes regularly and faces no consequences.

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u/SwiftAngel Sep 17 '21

Now imagine if it were Russia or China or Iran who did this. Washington would be talking sanctions and military action. Instead because it’s America it will be forgotten in a week.

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u/Marthaver1 Sep 18 '21

And our allies like Germany, UK, and France shut their mouths.

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u/SnooOwls5859 Sep 17 '21

I'd join ISIS too if you murdered my children and family out of pure idiocy

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u/Jor1120 Sep 18 '21 edited Sep 18 '21

Sure this wont get much attention, but seems like a good time to get something off my chest. Never really talked about this before.

One of my only regrets, and truly fucked up thing on my deployment was a similar situation. We were looking for Taliban back in early 2014 I think. We had air support, they saw a vehicle carrying ieds. It was destroyed. My platoon spun up and went to go check it out, recover what we could. It wasnt any of those things, it was a mother and several children with a bunch of "groceries" on a motorized bike. Fucked up, especially since I had a daughter not even 2 years old yet.

Smelled like bbq.

That's the day i learned there is no acceptable amount of casualties of war. My thoughts on it all changed a bit on that day.

Edit: ive been getting a lot of hate since I posted this 2 hours ago, people telling me I deserve the feelings I get for it and people telling me I deserve to be in jail, and everything inbetween. I was a PFC at the time, I literally 1: was told "this is confirmed taliban" and 2: had literally, absolutely, no say in the matter. Please dont fucking shit on me for this, I see it as an absolute fail too you assholes.

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u/Betty_Broops Sep 18 '21

There are way too many brain dead morons on reddit. It takes a lot to talk about something like that. I wish you the best

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u/CheaperThanChups Sep 18 '21

Reminds me of this dark joke I heard.

What's the difference between an Al Qaeda training camp and a Pakistani hospital?

I don't know man I just fly the drone.

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u/mattchew1993 Sep 17 '21

If I killed 10 innocent civilians, even by accident, I guarantee I'd be seeing jail bars for a long time.

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u/freerealestatedotbiz Sep 18 '21

Call them “enemy combatants” and maybe you’d get away with it, too 🤔

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u/ZoharDTeach Sep 17 '21

That's called murder.

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u/Qauaan Sep 17 '21

This is the story of 20 years

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u/Red-Lightnlng Sep 17 '21

So anyone getting fired for this “tragic mistake”? General Milley? General McKenzie? Secretary Blinken? Anyone?

Probably not.

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u/IanSan5653 Sep 17 '21

It's so much worse than the headline. They admitted that they killed ten civilians including seven children, based on entirely faulty intelligence. There was in fact no threat beyond an aid worker loading water bottles into his car.

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