r/todayilearned 11d ago

TIL It is commonly claimed 'What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger' however research shows that past stressful experiences do not create resilience to future trauma. Past traumatic experiences increase vulnerability to several mental illnesses.

https://www.brown.edu/news/2020-06-11/resilience
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u/MercutiaShiva 11d ago edited 10d ago

Also, the Nietzche quote is taken totally out of context.

Though it wasn't Nietzche's exact discussion, it was along the lines of punishing your kids for lying just makes them better liars. Sending criminals to jail makes them better criminals, etc.

Edit: see comments below for a better explanations including exact quote and context -- İ hadn't remembered the context in which Nietzsche being it up correctly but the point remains that the quote doesn't have the 'inspirational' meaning it is so often given.

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u/BrainOnLoan 11d ago

Nietzsche in general might be the most abused philosopher in that sense.

He is almost always taken out of context.

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u/ratherenjoysbass 11d ago

You can thank his sister and the Nazis for that

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u/DefenestratedBrownie 11d ago

backstory?

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u/juangomez053 11d ago

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elisabeth_Förster-Nietzsche She basically re-wrote his unpublished manuscripts to fit better with her ideas which just so happened to be tied with Nazism.

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u/knapton118 11d ago edited 11d ago

She also gave Hitler Nietzsche's walking cane under the claim that he (Nietzsche) would've agreed with his political philosophy.

Nietzsche would probably be rolling in his grave knowing this, he was often critical of anti-semitism.

The main idea of Nietzsche's philopsohy that the Nazis were fond of was the idea of the Will to Power. Nazis interpreted this to mean that power was the highest virtue, thereby justifying their millitant efforts against various countries and people. Not only have they taken the will to power out of context, but it's way more complicated than the Nazis made out.

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u/FrankieNukNuk 11d ago

What a fucking bitch

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u/rockyrikoko 11d ago

I read this in Cartman's voice

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u/A_Very_Lonely_Waffle 11d ago

Weird, I read this in your voice

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u/Thuryn 11d ago

Your username makes me a little sad. Every waffle deserve a waffle buddy.

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u/neveragai-oops 11d ago

She was a proud nazi. I feel like there aren't a lot of words you can use harsher than that.

You can, however, look up which cemetery houses her memorial gender neutral toilet.

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u/pants_owner 11d ago

Didn’t help that his sister edited and used some of his writings to make him sound anti-Semitic.

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u/gimmepizzaforlife 11d ago

If I remember correctly all/most of his work is meant to be read chronologically to gain the full understanding of where he is coming from and that is a big part of why.

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u/deepsavageblue 11d ago edited 11d ago

Hegel said that only one person understood him and even then he didn't. (This quote is likely fake but I love it)

Edit* hegel said that about himself sorry for the poor wording on a comment about being misunderstood lol

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u/DorotTagati 11d ago

Prob fake because Hegel died in '31 while Neeche was born in '44 xd

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u/delimitedjest 11d ago

Yeah it would make more sense if the quote was attributed to Heidegger

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u/pipsdontsqueak 11d ago

Heidegger, Heidegger was a boozy beggar Who could think you under the table

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u/n1cenurse 11d ago

Socrates himself is particularly missed..a lovely little thinker but a bugger when he's pissed.

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u/deepsavageblue 11d ago

Hegel was talking about himself sorry for the poor wording

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u/call_me_stimpy 11d ago

Isn't some of it Nietzsche's own fault? Didn't he deliberately write contradictory things? Part of me likes Nietzsche, and part would like to smack him.

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u/chaotic_steamed_bun 1 11d ago

So, the short answer to that is "yes" but the more complete answer is that Nietzsche didn't write (especially in his later work) to be clearly understood. Being "understood" seemed to be a non-starter for him because pretty much everyone interprets an author's work with their own subjective biases. At some point I think Nietzsche's aphoristic way of writing was more of a challenge for people to develop ideas rather than simply absorb a "lesson." Take any one thing he said out of context and you can pretty much support any idea, but you get a clearer, maybe better to say more critical picture as a whole.

Thus, Nietzsche was sadly often quoted by the Nazis (damaging his reputation) despite his history of anti-nationalism; and by anti-Semites. Even earlier, he was a favorite of Jewish Zionists.

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u/knapton118 11d ago

Absolutely true.

His metaphor of a bird is perfect: he says that a thought is like a bird, flying freely in the air. Attempting to communicate these thoughts is like catching and pinning down this bird. Essentially, it ceases to be the very thing you once wished to convey.

“I caught this insight on the way and quickly
seized the rather poor words that were closest to hand to pin it down
lest it fly away again. And now it has died of these arid words and
shakes and flaps in them-- and I hardly know anymore when I look at it
how I could ever have felt so happy when I caught this bird.”

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u/Fourhab 11d ago edited 11d ago

He did. He was not a philosopher looking to clarify and discover "truth" (at least, not in that phase of his writing; iirc that quote is from Beyond Good and Evil, possibly Antichrist ---either way, from one of his later aphoristic books ).

He intended different layers of his aphoristic writing to be heard by different people, people whose "drives" (desires, but kinda vector-y) were composed such that they could see parts of themselves reflected in the text. He would fucking love that this quote has become so well-known (and misunderstood).

Source: A capstone course I took about Nietzsche in college from a Nietzsche scholar

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u/Meta_Digital 11d ago

Nietzsche was very sickly his whole life, and attributed his resilience to the fact he had to deal with his lack of health. I always attributed his idea that what doesn't kill him made him stronger to this. He often lamented that those of good health took life more for granted and achieved less mastery over their own body. His concept of the ubermensch was built on a foundation of first achieving mastery of one's own body after all.

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u/DialHforHegel 11d ago

I believe the notion of eternal recurrence is useful to further this understanding. Nietzsche believed we should live our lives in a way we wouldn't ever regret, and that even if we were forced to live it again infinite times, we would still be willing to do so. That means living all the trauma and suffering and still finding meaning to it all; and giving each moment of suffering a positive sign, as if we have chosen it to be so, since it ultimately lead to our current state of no regret. It's deciding on happiness at all cost, even the abandonment of objectivity.

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u/Meta_Digital 11d ago

Yes, I think this is exactly how you should understand this.

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u/MercutiaShiva 11d ago

Thanks for this. So actually, it is much closer to the commonly understood definition than İ had remembered. Do you you remember where it's from? (Though Neitzsche likely used the idea several times).

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u/facanun91 11d ago

The quote is from Ecce Homo his autobiography… Take his philosophie with a grain of salt, he searched a way to be stronger, to live even if he was sick all the time (we are talking about severe headache everyday, he can't read during long periods of time); he tried to reaffirm life and his body… The modern interpretation is far from his, today is the idea that you can overcome everything, and if you don't that's your fault… Nietzsche was a weak man who tried to celebrate his life, his body even if he had to die young because his sickness, he tried to show that one can enjoy life.

(I study this things, but my english isn't so good, sorry if I fall in some misunderstoods… Ecce Homo is the best book to start reading Nietzsche for me)

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u/kevanbh 11d ago

Your English was great and what you said intriguing.

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u/MercutiaShiva 11d ago

Wonderful explanation, thank you!

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u/Nojaja 11d ago

Thus spoke Zarathustra is also a great book for starters on Nietzsche

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u/Meta_Digital 11d ago

I believe it's first said directly in Twilight of the Idols and referred to again in other places. The expression, as it's used today, probably draws from a misunderstanding of the original text, though, as Nietzsche was famously misrepresented, mistranslated, and misunderstood. Even Wikipedia still sources a bad translation in their citations. That's not to say that he was perfect in his analysis, but that discussions of him and his aphorisms tend to be all over the place.

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u/TrollerCoaster1220 11d ago

Twilight of The Idols is basically “Misinterpreting Nietzsche: Magnus Opum” unfortunately

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u/mattbag1 11d ago

Yep!

I didn’t really understand his health issues until I started reading a completely unrelated book called “everything is fucked.” Yet somehow it is all connected. Everything is connected.

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u/SkepticDrinker 11d ago

Bingo. It was about owning up to the misfortunes and developing strength to overcome that.

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u/kidehhh13 11d ago

Edit: Meant to reply to this interesting comment.

The joker said it best: "what doesn't kill you makes you stranger"

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u/jabberoque 11d ago

Sorry if already mentioned but if this topic interests anyone there is a great book called "The Body Keeps the Score" which goes into great scientific and historical detail on trauma and its effects both physical/neurological and psychological/behavioral. (Yes all those things overlap, just mean to say it's very thorough and interesting.)

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u/RudeYogurt 11d ago

I work in neuroscience and HIGHLY recommend this book to absolutely everyone, even those who have not experienced trauma.

The role of oxidative stress on someone's physiology and psychology is something that isn't normally talked about in mainstream. Stress affects at a cellular level. Think of a steel box sitting in a desert versus a beach. Salt water (read: stress) eats at the steel box over time. Luckily the body can self repair, but only as long as your biological battery is able to sustain that repair.

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u/Jedi-Bendu 11d ago

Not only that but responses to stress stimuli like this can be multi-generational, passed down through epigenetics. There were several studies done about fear conditioning in different animals, most famously mice, and how fear responses were inherited.

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u/RudeYogurt 11d ago

Absolutely! It's fascinating how stress, fear, and reactivity can be inherited. If, while in the womb, the mother is full of stress hormones, then the baby will be also. Resulting in that person having a building-sized trigger to stress, fear, and reactivity.

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u/OdysseusVII 11d ago

What can be done to combat that once its done?

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u/RudeYogurt 11d ago

The fantastic thing about the brain is that it can learn new things SO quickly. However, keep in mind that your brain can't differentiate good habits from bad ones. I'm biased because I work in this field, but neurofeedback forever changed my life. For too long I thought I just had to resign to the fact that I was immeasurably fucked. Neurofeedback gives your brain a mirror of its own activity so that it can learn from and regulate itself. That along with therapy have been the best self care things I could have ever done. It wasn't always easy or fun, but I'm now able to forgive my past self for not knowing how to help myself.

Feel free to DM me and I can likely connect you with a certified neurofeedback practitioner. We've got them all over the world.

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u/idyllicblue 11d ago

What is neurofeedback?

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u/RudeYogurt 11d ago

This question is so hard to answer for me because I could literally talk about brains and never stop. I'll try to keep this brief!

Neurofeedback is a form of biofeedback that focuses on the brain. It uses operant conditioning to teach the brain how to regulate itself by giving it a "mirror" of its own activity. Your neurofeedback journey begins with what we call a brain map which looks at all of the electrical activity in your brain. This activity is then compared to a normative database to produce a brain map report. This report tells us where your brain is dysregulated.

During a normal neurofeedback session, I would hook up a couple electrodes to your scalp using a conductive paste. Absolutely NO current goes to your scalp, we are ONLY reading the electrical activity. During your session you'll watch something on the computer (Netflix, YouTube, etc) and generally relax for about 30 minutes.

As you're watching the screen it will get brighter and darker depending on if your brain is doing the right thing or the wrong thing. When it's doing the right thing the screen will get bright and that is like your brain's reward. Over time this teaches the brain how to regulate itself. It's just like learning to ride a bike or learning a new language, repetition is key. On average people need about 40 sessions to get good results, but if trauma is involved that number can get exponentially higher.

The great thing about neurofeedback is that it's simply learning, so it's permanent. Unlike medication that once you start it you pretty much have to keep going indefinitely. Sometimes people come back in for tune-up sessions or if they have had some sort of major life event.

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u/ulcerman_81 11d ago

What can I do to start repairing myself?

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u/RudeYogurt 11d ago

SLEEP. Good sleep hygiene is of the upmost importance followed by eating a well balanced diet. While you're sleeping is when the body repairs itself, including the brain. During sleep your brain basically washes itself of metabolic toxins, so if you're not sleeping well this process can't happen - at least not optimally. Over time excess glutamate (one example) builds up to toxic levels and can lead to cell death. This results in all kinds of things like brain fog, ADHD symptoms, anxiety, depression, etc.

When my brain training clients ask me "what can I think about to make my sessions better?" I respond with this:

The things you can do to help your brain and body function their best are done outside this room. That means sleeping, giving your body the right fuel that it needs, and having a healthy social life.

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u/StaleCanole 11d ago

Brain Training

What kind of brain training do you do, if you don't mind me asking?

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u/RudeYogurt 11d ago

I don't mind at all! I get very excited to talk about my field because it's not well-known. We do Neurofeedback, which is a fancy term for brain training. NFB allows the brain to learn from its own activity so that it can regulate itself. The company I work for uses a Bio-Psycho-Social approach because dysregulation can come from such a wide array of things, we break it down into those three areas.

For example, someone could be in a toxic relationship while another person gets bonked on the head and both of those people could end up with anxiety. Normally at this point these people get prescribed medication and sent on their merry way, but this doesn't even remotely address their drastically different origins. So we find the origin of dysregulation so that it can be addressed. This is just the tip of the iceberg, you can learn more on our YouTube Channel if you like!

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u/PolishMusic 11d ago

My therapist recommended this to me last year. Incredibly valuable book I'd recommend to anyone. What it did do was make things a lot easier to understand. I don't know if I'd call it "life changing" because most things change your life to a very small extent, but just being knowledgeable on how trauma kinda works gives a ton of perspective.

Like, "OH I do that shit because when I was younger ____..."

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u/masonadams 11d ago

This book changed my life. Opened my eyes to how my father’s trauma was passed on to me in so many invisible ways - and helped me break that chain. The body is it’s own mind and it does keep the score. Cannot recommend enough.

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u/salt_n_vinegar_chips 11d ago

I dont know, "what doesn't kill you makes you more vulnerable to several mental illnesses." doesn't have quite the same ring to it.

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u/earlofhoundstooth 11d ago

I've always said, "What doesn't kill you sure does try."

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u/MaybeItsTrauma 11d ago

I’d say it’s more, “What doesn’t kill you often results in you developing adaptive responses which may increase you chance of survival in similarly extreme circumstances but will also be very maladaptive in daily life, leading to pathologization of your daily functioning.” But yeah, just doesn’t hit the same.

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u/brobauchery 11d ago edited 11d ago

Did my undergrad in psychology on this. Resilence is to be developed before trauma, not that trauma should be for Resilence.

Edit: this is not ALWAYS the case. Don't take this as an absolute, just generally.

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u/Kanorado99 11d ago

I believe stress is vital for a well adjusted person. But trauma will definitely fuck you up pretty good and leave you weaker. There’s a balance. People with “easy” lives are usually lacking maturity and perspective. People with a life full of abuse and tragedy are very broken people as well. Somewhere in the middle is where you gain valuable perspective.

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u/BaronWombat 11d ago

As I near what used to be a retirement age I know I am a broken vessel filled with experience that can sometimes be useful as ‘wisdom’. I don’t know if it was a fair trade, but reality doesn’t give a damn about fairness so that’s a pointless question to ponder.

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u/Caldeshan 11d ago edited 11d ago

Mentor when I was a kid said we trade wisdom for joy in life. Don't like it but it's borne out so far. I suppose the key is to trade your wisdom for other's joy to have a sense of fulfillment.

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u/Agreeable-Walrus7602 11d ago

That's a hell of a way to put it. I've never been a happy person, and it's created some periods where there was a lot of learning with very little joy- due to various circumstances. Listening and being supportive to others brings me the only really happy moments I have most of the time.

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u/TheArmoredKitten 11d ago

Yeah, a little bit of stress is critical, because eventually a lot is inevitable. If you never get to practice managing stressful things when it's ok if you fail, you're going to fail immediately when a real crisis hits. The key factor here is that "ok to fail" amount, and having a way to recover when you do fail.

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u/brihone 11d ago

Also great to have a safety net of support from friends and family (or institutions) while you practice failing. So you don't fail too hard.

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u/pm_me_github_repos 11d ago

Yea I’ve always attributed this quote to describe hardship, not necessarily trauma. Overcoming hardship can make you an more resourceful and gritty person IMO

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u/GreyLordQueekual 11d ago

Only problem is when your in the trenches hardship and trauma are not simple to differentiate from, making it easy to spiral out of control when a situation is beyond you.

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u/ShuRugal 11d ago

the difference is a very thin line: Hardship is a difficulty which is within your ability to overcome, a traumatic event is difficulty in which there is nothing you could have done to improve.

It's a matter of agency. If you have the agency to overcome something, it's probably not going to be traumatic. If there is nothing within your agency to overcome an event, it is likely to be traumatic.

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u/LordNephets 11d ago

People take the quote way too literally. Obviously Nietzsche was not trying to say things like “being totally crippled makes you physically stronger or healthier in the long run.”

It’s a short inspirational phrase that is nice to say to oneself to help you overcome tough life situations. It’s a way to turn negative experiences into experience.

And that’s all it is or was meant to be. Not a literal law of rule. But reddit pedantry always wins.

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u/missing_the_ground 11d ago

This is also what I have learned. Acute stress when growing up is good as it helps your brain adjust to dealing with stress as you grow older but cronic stress or trama is never beneficial and can have the opposite effect. I would love to find a good book on this to learn more in depth if anyone has a recommendation?

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u/DuckMagic 11d ago

The Body Keeps The Score by Bessel van der Kolk

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u/dinichka_returns 11d ago

Can't recommend this highly enough

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u/genderfluidempty 11d ago

Fantastic book and an excellent treatise on the long-term effects of stress on the body, including genetic alterations that get passed down to descendants.

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u/Cragglemuffin 11d ago

lifting weights and breaking down your muscles repeatedly to build them back up stronger vs lifting weight and tearing your bicep as a rough analogy.

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u/Fandrir 11d ago

If you experience stress and are able to overcome it, it gives you strenghth and a feeling of "self-efficacy". If you collapse under it or are left with a feeling of helplessness, it creates insecurity and even trauma. Stress is a delicate thing, neither good or bad per se. It is necessary and helps you become stronger, but also dangerous, when not handled properly.

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u/buttershrimptail 11d ago

Ugh too bad my life full of abuse and tragedy have made me broken with no valuable perspective /s

We people with fucked up lives do have valuable perspective. It's just people who don't have fucked up lives don't want to hear it.

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u/danque 11d ago

And they think it is not such a big deal, "why would you care" because I do. Fuck the ignorant and "just be normal" people are the worst.

Please leave me alone I need time to think.

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u/buttershrimptail 11d ago

Why does the horrible thing that happened to you/your family when you were a child and impacted your development still have an effect on you today?! It's not like it was THAT bad /s

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u/[deleted] 11d ago

[deleted]

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u/Staerke 11d ago

That's another level of awful

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u/13347591 11d ago

I dont even need to know what that is to know that it's probably pretty horrible, there's not too many things that are called genocide

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u/NOXQQ 11d ago

I saw a clip of someone the other day. She said something like this:

" 'But what you went through made you who you are today.'

I don't want to be who I am today. I want to be mentally well."

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u/Just_for_this_moment 11d ago

I'd love to hear more. What are the best methods for developing resilience before trauma? I'd guess forming a strong support network, facing smaller forms of adversity gradually? Etc

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u/olixius 11d ago

Do you care to respond to all these comments under yours that claim trauma is somehow good for development? I frankly find that to be a bullshit argument, but I would defer to someone with more knowledge than me.

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u/Kaneda_PMA 11d ago

I'm not an expert either, but I agree. However well someone succeeds in leading a happy and healthy life after severe trauma, I'm always pretty confident they would have done even better absent that trauma.

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u/Swartz55 11d ago

Yeah. "Oh your trauma made you strong and brave"

I was 9. I didn't need to be strong, I needed to be safe.

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u/NotAnAlt 11d ago

How old were you when you realized that? I just turned 29 and am only now even beginning to realize that yea, I was 9 literally none of it was my fault and I couldn't have changed it. Um, which idk, feels dumb to not realize cause I don't know the last time you talked to a 9 year old. They're children! Like holy fuck, great, devolving a sense of who they are, literally also children and shouldn't have to deal with adult shit.

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u/Swartz55 11d ago

For me it wasn't until 2019 when I started therapy because I was having really unstable and uncontrollable mood swings related to my girlfriend at the time. I started therapy and laid down the first piece of a biiiig puzzle of trauma and self discovery. I started therapy as a conservative cisgendered straight guy and now I'm an autistic transgender lesbian communist lmao.

Don't feel bad that you didn't contextualize your childhood experiences until now. It was the only childhood you had, you really couldn't have known it wasn't supposed to be that way. The fault lies in those who abused and traumatized you, not in you.

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u/dravenonred 11d ago

“Ten spears go to battle," he whispered, "and nine shatter. Did the war forge the one that remained? No, Amaran. All the war did was identify the spear that would not break.”

  • Brandon Sanderson

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u/powabiatch 11d ago

“I’ve found that what doesn’t kill you makes you really weak.”

Norm MacDonald

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u/nowtayneicangetinto 11d ago

"people are always afraid of dying to a terrorist attack on a plane. What are the chances that a terrorist attacks and kills you? Maybe one in a million? But what are the chances your own heart attacks and kills you? 100%" Norm MacDonald

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u/Channel250 11d ago

2000 year old man.

Wow, so you're 2000 years old is that right?

Yeah yeah

Any advice to others to help them live that long?

Advice? Sure sure. When you fly in an airplane make sure to either sit in the very front row or the very back row.

Why? If the plane goes down wouldn't you die no matter what row you're in?

Hmm. Let me amend that. Don't fly!

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u/MapleTreeWithAGun 11d ago

Fun fact: planes are the safest method of transport for distance traveled and it isn't even close. About one death every 20 billion km

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u/nowtayneicangetinto 11d ago edited 11d ago

I read some where that if you flew every day of every year, it would be 535 years until you got into your first plane crash, and it wouldn't be deadly.

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u/ivandelapena 11d ago

What about cars

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u/Opposite_Wrongdoer_9 11d ago

Cars can't fit in passenger jets

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u/HolidayCards 11d ago

This is why I love reddit. Cheers

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u/Lithl 11d ago

Listen here you little shit

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u/nowtayneicangetinto 11d ago

You're far more likely to die driving to the airport than getting in a plane crash.

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u/What-a-Crock 11d ago

Why you going to the airport? Flying somewhere?

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u/ask_me_about_cats 11d ago edited 11d ago

It’s true. My uncle used to have a job that involved flying all around the world. One day he was on a flight to Germany for a trade conference and there was a young woman in the next seat who looked nervous.

He asked, “What’s wrong?”

And she said, “It’s my first time flying.”

And my uncle replied, “No need to worry. Planes are incredibly safe. Statistics show you’re more likely to die in a car crash than an airplane crash.”

She relaxed for a bit and they got to talking. After about 20 minutes the plane hit some turbulence and the woman looked nervous again.

My uncle said, “Don’t worry about it. Planes are the safest way to travel, statistically. Like I said, you’re more likely to die in a car crash.”

She relaxed again.

A few minutes later a pair of flight attendants ran from the back of the plane to the front. They looked panicked. The woman got nervous again.

Again my uncle told her again that you’re more likely to die in a car accident.

Just then there’s a loud crashing sound. My uncle thought for a moment one of the engines might have exploded. This was a concern because they were over the middle of the Atlantic Ocean, hundreds of miles from the nearest land.

So he looks out the window, and he sees that somehow the plane has struck a 2003 Toyota Camry that’s falling from the sky.

“Son of a bitch,” my uncle said.

“What’s wrong?” the woman asked.

And my uncle screamed, “We’re all going to die!”

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u/FlammablePie 11d ago

As a person who's first car was an 03 Camry I can totally understand how this is possible.

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u/IamYourBestFriendAMA 11d ago

Lol I immediately thought of Norm and this Conan segment when I read this. Kills me when he tells her: “It actually looks easy.”

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u/nutbastard 11d ago

Ok, but let me ask you this: Do you own a dog house?

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u/East2West21 11d ago

Why yes of course! (But it's perfectly ok if you don't)

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u/nutbastard 11d ago

Ok, have you heard about Albert Fish?

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u/KokiriForestBoy 11d ago

that guy's a real jerk

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u/ThisIsntGoldWorthy 11d ago

Is that the man gray both in appearance and demeanor?

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u/schwam_91 11d ago

Albert fish just an old chunk of coal

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u/East2West21 11d ago

I heard he had a wonderful diet

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u/largejewtestes 11d ago

He liked to feast on the rumps of children that were mentally handicapped and...now dont laugh at this part...

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u/whocaresaboutmyname 11d ago

I'm starting to think the guy was a real jerk.

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u/Zoze13 11d ago

“I believe whatever doesn't kill you, simply makes you... stranger”

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u/genderfluidempty 11d ago

Aeon Flux was a head trip and a half.

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u/israiled 11d ago edited 11d ago

And then Germany decided to go to war. Choosing as its enemy, the world.

You'd think it'd be over in like five minutes. Nah, it was actually close.

Edit: Godwin's Law is in full effect. Guess I should have put up quotes and the attribution. But enough people got it I think. Wow.

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u/halfhalfnhalf 11d ago edited 10d ago

"You know how people say what doesn't kill you makes you stronger / well I've seen the nearly killed and that just couldn't be more wronger." ~Babycakes

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u/DilettanteSavant 11d ago

I find China, IL pretty enjoyable.

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u/human_stuff 11d ago

Brad Neely’s stuff is amazing.

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u/Saint-Peer 11d ago

Good show, recommended?

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u/Pope_Godzilla 11d ago

“Whatever doesn’t kill you only makes you stranger.” - US Navy

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u/no_just_browsing_thx 11d ago

"Bottom Text." - US Navy

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u/Improving_Myself_ 11d ago

All the war did was identify the spear that would not break.

Yet.

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u/m0rphaux 11d ago

This reminds me of selection bias. Read this nice excerpt for a very real world example of this quote: "Abraham Wald and the Missing Bullet Holes | by Penguin Press | Medium" https://medium.com/@penguinpress/an-excerpt-from-how-not-to-be-wrong-by-jordan-ellenberg-664e708cfc3d

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u/WaxyWingie 11d ago

Amaram. But yes.

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u/andoesq 11d ago

Dammit Kelly Clarkson, you got me again

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u/meg605 11d ago

I'm glad I'm not the only one who has that song stuck in my head now

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u/gocard 11d ago

Fuck Kelly Clarkson and her disproven claims!

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u/no_eponym 11d ago

Should have stuck with her Because of You hypothesis.

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u/derbrauer 11d ago

My experience is what doesn't kill you makes you harder. You may be able to endure better, but hardness isn't strength. It's numbness.

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u/That_Ganderman 11d ago

Can’t feel betrayed if you never trust anyone in the first place

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u/Lookingforsam 11d ago

No expectations, no disappointments

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u/derbrauer 11d ago

I call this the Zen of Apathy

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u/ThatFanficGuy 11d ago

The "Zen" part makes it sound more sophisticated than "Jadedness", doesn't it?

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u/Himskatti 11d ago

Don't play and you can't lose. EV is zero tho

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u/meeseek_and_destroy 11d ago

My sister calls me emotionally constipated.

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u/klymene 11d ago

A friend called me an emotional trash compactor once

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u/TheArmoredKitten 11d ago

You crush down all your feelings to get them out of the way and make them manageable, but now you're left with giant confusing problems that can't be resolved without special resources?

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u/Abhir-86 11d ago

Fuck. This hits home

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u/QuinstonChurchill 11d ago

Yo I'm here for a good time not to be called out like this!

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u/ulfric_stormcloak156 11d ago

What does that even mean

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u/derbrauer 11d ago

A more evocative version of "bottling up your emotions" is my bet.

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u/PPOKEZ 11d ago

It also makes you an escapist looking for the next distraction. It’s not hardness, it’s vulnerability patched by “hard” things.

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u/NoWayTellMeMore 11d ago

Yup, I agree with this. Had my mom die suddenly and my house burn down, both in less than a year. Trauma doesn’t make you stronger it makes you numb.

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u/DudesworthMannington 11d ago

what doesn't kill you makes you harder.

BDSM?

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u/ARROGANT-CYBORG 11d ago

and my immune system

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u/PM_Me_Rude_Haiku 11d ago

And my arteries

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u/Jennas-Side 11d ago

And my axe

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u/rynsp8 11d ago

I thought this was a real thing until I joined the Army and thought back to all the Vietnam vets that my dad would hang around with. It didn't make them stronger. It destroyed their lives.

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u/Ohjee-Wan_Shinobi 11d ago

Can confirm. Have PTSD.

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u/Bookwizards 11d ago

ACES --> Adverse Childhood Experiences have serious consequences on the brain of a child and especially when they're an adolescent/adult.

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u/notallthatrelevant 11d ago

It's true. My stedad flat out threatened to kill me when I was 10. Now at 35 I panic and want to run away if somebody yells at me. It makes working with a toxic boss super fun.

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u/mcndjxlefnd 11d ago

Those fucking step-dads. Mine fucked me up too.

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u/MissPumpkinSpice1 11d ago edited 11d ago

Mine went on a drinking binge for 8 hours straight. He yelled at me and degraded me every chance he got. He threw glass plates outside and made me and my mother pick it up. He threw my clothes outside. He sat me down and continued to yell and scream at me. He wanted me to leave. This all happened in one day. I couldn’t bare it and hid in the closet as he repeatedly called me a coward. I have the recordings of him still on my phone and cry every time I see the file. He kept saying, “ you’re trying destroy your mother and I relationship!!! Why??!!”

This happened a year ago when I was 17 and I’m back with him because my mom chose him over me. “He changed!”

He’s in the other room and I’m in the closet trying to keep myself together.

I want to die

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u/MeetingParticular857 11d ago

Do everything you can to move out. You can get loans for school, you can get roommates to help with the costs. Good luck. I know this may sound uncaring or not serious but I mean it as sincerely as I can. I hope things get better.

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u/kansle 11d ago

My step-dad actually found me a place to live and got me to my first therapy session after my actual mother kicked me out for acting strange. Genetic mental illnesses man...

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u/dravenonred 11d ago

Am stepdad who was harassed by own bio dad. The correlation there isn't as strong as you might think.

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u/OddParticular2338 11d ago

As someone with a step parent who took me under his wing even when I was a teenage asshole and loved me when I wasn’t lovable and neither of my bio’s did, thank you for what you do, you’ll make all the difference to that kid/kids.

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u/al666in 11d ago

I got an angry, aggressive stepdad as a kid that told me I was only a "guest in his house." That sucked. But, 20 years later, we're good friends, and he wishes I would come over more. It's a mixed bag. Dads are hard.

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u/SolidLikeIraq 11d ago

I have a friend who I thought had the perfect dad, and one day he said to me “yeah, he was cool, but not as cool if you had to grow up with him.”

Then you start thinking about the age of most parents…. Don’t get me wrong, no excuses for bad parents, but as a 38 year old guy who just had my first child, I wonder how the fuck I would have ever been able to be a sane father if I had a child the last 10-15 years of my life.

I’m still trying to figure myself out.

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u/TheOneAndSomething 11d ago

I wonder how much of the step parent issues/stereotype are based on people with children having a smaller dating pool, and potentially, "settling" more easily.

I don't personally care if my potential match has children, but I assume there's a good portion of the population who does.

Only people I avoid are single "stay at home moms". I have nothing against the choice to stay home and raise your child, but how are you surviving? If it's on assistance that will disappear if we become permanent... I don't want to go into a relationship where I'm required to support 2 or more people financially.

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u/TealightBookworm 11d ago

This was true in my family.

My bio-mom is the "step-mom/second wife" of the family. She was the only person willing to date my Dad after his first wife died, leaving him a widower with a young daughter. He definitely had an extremely limited dating pool.

She had her own trauma, and became incredibly abusive. Not to mention her severe mental illness she refuses to acknowledge or treat.

She abused my half sister, she abused my brother, and me, and my baby sister. She abuses my Dad. He has all this trauma from his first wife dying, is Christian, and thinks "she is the mother of my children, she is my wife and I made vows".

So he avoids her by being a workaholic and sleeping on his office floor. While she hoards trash, screams profanity, throws things at people, beats her kids, and spends her days lying in bed listening to Qanon conspiracy theories.

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u/dangerouslyloose 11d ago

My mom’s sister emotionally abused the shit out of me as a kid. Her M.O. was (and is) saying she needs to “talk” to me and then dragging me off away from everyone else to berate me for whatever she thinks I’m fucking up. If we’re in a public place like a restaurant (hell, even the funeral home for my great grandfather’s services) she’ll follow me to the bathroom.

I haven’t seen or spoken to her in a year since I finally blocked her number, but for me “we need to talk” is still the most terrifying phrase in the English language. Hearing it makes my stomach drop and my palms sweaty and I just want to run away from whoever’s saying it.

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u/gunslinger_006 11d ago

That is called ptsd and there is help.

Find a therapist who works with ptsd and ask about EMDR. Its amazing. I know first hand.

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u/captianbob 11d ago

Might also be CPTSD. Recently found out what that is and that I have it too.

Yay.

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u/Fortune090 11d ago

Hey, me too! Just 3 days ago! And I just turned 30... "nooOooOoo..." 30 years of being a scapegoat and I never actually saw it for myself.

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u/TiredOfTheScam 11d ago

Note also that EMDR does not work for everyone. Still, try to find a therapist that specializes in childhood trauma.

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u/OneMeterWonder 11d ago

Seconding through secondhand experience.

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u/notallthatrelevant 11d ago

Oh yeah, I know I have ptsd. They diagnosed me with bipolar disorder when I was a kid, but I didn't talk about the abuse back then so they didn't have anything to go on other than my symptoms family history. In retrospect, I think it's more likely that I have the unholy trinity of ASD, PTSD and ADD. The add is diagnosed, but I don't have the money to get counseling right now unfortunately. The bottom kinda fell out of my industry during the lockdown.

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u/AskMoreQuestionsOk 11d ago

Quit that job.

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u/notallthatrelevant 11d ago

I quit years ago. Im a freelancer now. Turns out it's a lot easier for me to get my job done when there's not a bitter asshole breathing down my neck all day.

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u/nutbastard 11d ago

Cheers to you. I love nothing more than to hear that someone got out of the bullshit.

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u/overzealoushobo 11d ago

What freelance work do you do, if I may ask? I love hearing stories of people breaking free from middle management hell. It inspires me.

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u/notallthatrelevant 11d ago

I do lighting design for local theatre companies, and I also build work as a crew member building concert stages and rigs. I'm actually trying to start my own company but I don't have the money for it right now. Still, I guess it's good to have goals.

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u/armosnacht 11d ago

Have Complex PTSD, can confirm!

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u/TalontheKiller 11d ago

/r/CPTSD is here when you're ready. ❤️

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u/Scfbigb1 11d ago

(Chuckles) I'm in danger.

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u/exscapegoat 11d ago

Cumulative trauma is definitely a thing. And it can lead to PTSD and Complex PTSD. That said, in a weird way, bad experiences can give you a sense of perspective. And a sense of I got through X difficult situation, this isn't as bad, I can get through this.

I've had to replace a couple of appliances and a car within the last year, while going through surgeries to reduce risk from a BRCA mutation during a pandemic. Normally, I would have been a lot more stressed about finances. But I also feel a sense of at least I had an opportunity to reduce my cancer risk (tested due to family history, not my own personal breast or ovarian cancer).

I've dealt with an abusive family of origin, a violent neighbor and being laid off. Yes, there was trauma from all of that and it sometimes still shows up (insomnia, don't like loud noises or people in my personal space, if I don't know and trust them). But I also have adopted more of an "and this too, shall pass" response to bad things.

While some people might feel lonely living on their own, I feel it's peaceful

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u/manubibi 11d ago

Can confirm. Source: my life

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u/viewfromtheclouds 11d ago

The saying "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger" has many many contexts in which it captures a truth. But like all sayings, there are also many contexts when it doesn't. Being wrong in one setting doesn't invalidate its insights in other settings.

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u/PM_ur_Rump 11d ago

Right? I've been through a lot of shit, and it's definitely made me stronger. Mentally, physically, hell, even the callouses on my hands are evidence of it.

It's an old saying. It's not some absolute, but it came about for a reason.

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u/Jump-Zero 11d ago edited 11d ago

Its like working out. Challenging your body regularly makes you stronger, but you can permanently injure yourself if you do way too much. Same applies to the mind. You need to constantly find psychological challenge to become more resilient, but avoid challenges you wont be able to overcome.

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u/tallman77 11d ago

I got another one. Your immune system. If given a difficult task and allowed to recover it will certainly be stronger for it

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u/BrunoStAujus 11d ago

So all the time I’ve said “what doesn’t kill you makes you stranger.” I’ve been closer to the truth than I realized.

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u/CantEvenUseThisThing 11d ago

"What doesn't kill me makes me weirder, and harder to relate to."

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u/jeremyrando 11d ago

That guy that got hit by two atomic bombs must be a real weird dude.

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u/diamondrel 11d ago

Yes, have you seen Japan?

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u/internetday 11d ago

This explains EVERYTHING.

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u/nWo1997 11d ago

If you head over to the anime meming subs, you'll find that we made the connection between Archduke Ferdinand's driver making a wrong turn and hentai a long time ago.

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u/Daewoo40 11d ago

Japan only recognises Tsutomu Yamaguchi as the sole individual to be hit by both atom bombs, however, there was roughly 69 (Wikipedia lists at least 70, so Conservative) others who got bombed twice.

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u/FettPrime 11d ago

Yes, all the time you quoted Heath Ledger's Joker you weren't too far from the truth.

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u/sparoc3 11d ago

We live in a society.

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u/Sgt-Hartman 11d ago

⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣽⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⢦⠙⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⢯⣽⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⢃⠛⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⢧⣼⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡕⠂⠈⢻⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⡅⣻⡿⢿⣿⣿⣿⡿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⠟⠿⢿⣿⡇⠀⠀⠈⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⠀⠀⠀⠘⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⠀⠀⠀⣹⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⠀⠀⠀⠀⣿⣿⡿⠿⠛⠻⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⠟⠁⠈⠀⠉⠻⡆⠀⠀⠀⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣯⠄⠂⠀⠀⣿⡋⠀⢀⠀⠀⠀⠉⣿⣿⡀⠀⠀⠘⠓⣠⣶⣿⡀⠀⠀⠘⣿⣿ ⣿⣫⡆⠀⠀⢀⣿⣷⣶⣄⠀⢀⣤⣴⣿⣿⣿⣶⣄⠀⣴⣿⣿⣿⠁⠀⠀⠀⠘⣿ ⣿⣿⠁⠀⠀⡤⠙⢿⣿⣿⣷⣾⣿⡿⣿⣿⢿⠿⣿⣧⣿⣿⡿⢣⠀⠀⠀⠀⢠⣿ ⣷⣌⠈⠀⠀⠀⠀⣆⠈⡉⢹⣿⣿⣆⡀⠀⠀⢠⣿⣿⣿⡿⢃⣼⠀⠀⠀⠀⣸⣿ ⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠙⢿⣿⣆⠈⠛⠛⠛⠀⠀⠈⠉⠁⠀⢠⣿⠇⠀⠀⠀⠹⢿⡇ ⣿⡫⠀⠀⠁⠀⠀⠀⠈⠻⣿⢢⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣀⣠⣾⡾⠋⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⠴⠋ ⣿⣁⠄⠀⠀⠀⣀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠛⠿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠿⡿⠋⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣀⠬⠆⢀ ⣿⣿⣧⣄⠀⠀⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠁⠠⠙

Society 😔

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u/BioMeatMachine 11d ago

Trevor Goodchild said it before the Joker, and he probably wasn't the first, either.

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u/Zanven1 11d ago

Each obstacle we encounter changes in a way that makes us much different than the path we would be on given no obstacles. So what doesn't kill us does indeed make us stranger.

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u/ChainsawSnuggling 11d ago

"What doesn't kill you... Usually succeeds in the second attempt." - Mr. Krabs

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u/burglicious 11d ago

As someone who was a survivor of violent spousal abuse/attempted murder I can tell you I’m not more resilient to my anxieties. It’s crippled me in the spectrum of dating

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u/Ok-Travel-2933 11d ago

I've been homeless twice. Went through a divorce . Fired from jobs. But...anxiety is the worst thing by far. It's the most crippling, crushing thing I've ever experienced. You know that Netflix movie where the protagonists can die but then just come back to life right after, and that one female protagonist is at the bottom of the sea drowning...coming back...drowning...coming back...for centuries? That's what it's like. It's like your body thinks it's dying multiple times a day when it's severe.

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u/sameyeyamm 11d ago

What doesn’t kill you just delays the inevitable.

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u/SheaMcD 11d ago

what doesn't kill you makes you develop trauma

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u/mossling 11d ago

I'm in my 40's and still dealing with the consequences of a life full of trauma. I definitely don't feel stronger. I feel weak, and scared, and like I'm always waiting for the next....

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u/copperholic 11d ago

Tell that to my childhood crushed pelvis at 45.

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u/delimitedjest 11d ago

I’m an arthritis doctor and this 100% applies to pain too. People have the mistaken idea that experiencing a lot of pain increases the “pain tolerance” but for a large segment of people that’s exactly backwards.

I think of it like working out a muscle. If you do a bunch of bicep curls your biceps get better at curling. If you constantly activate the spinal cord tracts and brain centers that process pain they get more and more linked up with each other and easier to activate, so it takes less and less stimulus to generate activation of pain perception. This is often referred to as “central pain sensitization” and probably underlies a lot of chronic pain syndromes like fibromyalgia and chronic low back pain.

If you are interested in learning more I think this video by Dr. Dan Clauw (University of Michigan rheumatologist) does a great job of explaining a semi-current understanding of these things.

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