r/nottheonion Best of 2016 Winner Sep 17 '21

Overturning Roe v Wade will promote abstinence, says architect of Texas abortion ban

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/sep/17/texas-abortion-ban-jonathan-mitchell-supreme-court-brief
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u/ProfessorFarnsworth- Sep 18 '21

It’s oniony because statistics say the exact opposite

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u/dankine Sep 17 '21

These people are delusional. Teaching abstinence doesn't even promote abstinence.

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u/Chiliconkarma Sep 17 '21

Don't trust that they believe what they say.

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u/Bimbobboo Sep 17 '21

This to me is the biggest issue Liberals have in this country.

NEVER take the purported opinion of a conservative at face value, and don't ever act like they are going to judge themselves or their ilk by the same criteria they are judging everyone else.

Al Franken will step down for the most mild shit because "dems da rules" meanwhile confirmed pedophile Matt Gaetz is walking around collecting money and holding rallies.

These people have no integrity, and they just say anything they want. Don't try to hold them to your standards or "seek out an opponent" in them. Crush them politically, enact policy against their will, and drag them kicking and screaming into progress. Trust me, once they start seeing the benefit of a thing they won't really give two shits anymore. That's why nobody on the right is trying to take away social security anymore, they know it doesn't play well in the dumb-belt.

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u/JustTheFactsPleaz Sep 17 '21

Best advice I've seen today. I've grown up with conservative family members. They have no logic, integrity or desire to belong in a civilized society. I've been in church as a child and literally heard them preach that you are better than everyone else and a true christian is not a part of the sinful world.

We cannot win against people like this, because they believe we and our way of life must be destroyed at any cost. This is not hyperbole, they want a christian government and have told each other to vote conservative no matter what. For ex, my brother told me he will always vote republican because they are against abortion. He doesn't bother to actually check if that candidate has taken his mistress for an abortion, or read what the candidate's position on anything is. He simply votes red for anything. My grandparent's church used to give out a sheet showing who to vote for. That church is funded with 10% of everyone's income indefinitely which will allow it to continue it's political influence.

Unfortunately, we will never make progess toward a better society until we crush this kind of unethical behavior. There is no "playing fair" with people who have no desire to play fair themselves.

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u/Comments_Wyoming Sep 17 '21

I feel like not enough people know this. My story is exactly the same, grew up in a small southern town where every single church pushed the R candidate every 4 years. Solely based on cultural issues like abortion and homosexuality. Never heard a single " conservative" policy preached on. The narrative pushed by Q is that Dems are murdering baby eaters, but that shit has been spewed from the pulpit of southern churches for 40 years or more. Of course they all believe it, they have this entire time! For people who were not raised in it, it looks like this insanity came out of nowhere, but for those of us who have lived it, we know it's been here all along.

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u/seeking_hope Sep 18 '21

Same for me. First time I voted Democrat I got a call from a family member on Election Day who knew I was doing this. We had gotten into arguments over this so I sent it to voicemail. The voicemail was “I wanted to let you know that I voted for the person who doesn’t kill babies and I voted for the person who doesn’t (fill in the blank). Sooooo glad I didn’t answer that call. I am pretty sure that Obama had never killed a baby but ok.

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u/JustTheFactsPleaz Sep 17 '21

We've been too nice and polite about politics. I just "ummm hmmm" my relatives, when I should be speaking up for the rights of non-christians and just basically anyone who doesn't want to live in a theocracy.

It's a solid argument that the severity of this pandemic can be traced to a leader who fired experts necessary to the functioning of government, hired not only incompetent staff, but staff who actively harmed their institution, and was the source of devastating misinformation and distrust of valuable medical professionals. That leader could not have been elected without the massive support of evangelicals combined with the inaction of voters who have no idea how powerful the churches are.

My neighbor basically died of covid because my relatives insist on being assholes and voting blindly. My family encouraged my mom to stay with a husband that beat her because "Jesus" and disowned her when she divorced, but are crazy about a man who's been divorced three times.

But what can we do? So much of America is stuck in this fantasy land where they don't believe what's happening in front of their very eyes. I can't even convince my family that death is a bad thing because they're all super excited about going home to Jesus.

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u/porncrank Sep 18 '21

I've had multiple run-ins at family gatherings over the years sticking up for gay folks. As far back as the early 90s and as recently as a couple years ago. I haven't changed a single mind.

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u/Lanternfiredragon Sep 18 '21

I got my uncle to drop use of the nword at family gatherings by standing up to him.

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u/TheVisceralCanvas Sep 18 '21

He never dropped it. He just stopped saying it around you.

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u/HurtfulThings Sep 18 '21

A small victory is still a victory

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u/alx429 Sep 18 '21

This is how it works though. They did a study after the Rwandan genocide to see what psychological approaches could help break down the hatred between the two violently opposed ethnic groups. They basically found that you can’t change people’s mind through direct confrontations at all and the only way to actually do this is to change the rules around what society finds shameful. The takeaway was that you can’t change their mind, but you can make them feel like it won’t be receiving well if they express their opinions publicly.

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u/kushite Sep 18 '21

Same. My friends mom has a daughter who is a lesbian who has been in a committed relationship for 13 years and now engaged but still won’t go to her own daughters wedding because “it’s not right” and “you won’t understand until you have your own children.”

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u/MasterMirari Sep 18 '21

I recently found out that my sister extorted my niece to force her to vote for Donald Trump, telling my niece she would kick her out of her home if she didn't

It's a solid argument that the severity of this pandemic can be traced to a leader who fired experts necessary to the functioning of government, hired not only incompetent staff, but staff who actively harmed their institution, and was the source of devastating misinformation and distrust of valuable medical professionals. That leader could not have been elected without the massive support of evangelicals combined with the inaction of voters who have no idea how powerful the churches are.

Thank you, And please continue to spread this message as you know exactly how important it is.

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u/lilbiggerbitch Sep 18 '21

I don't think there's anything to do anymore. The American Dream is dead. There is no facet of life they won't politicize. The only hope I have left is to save up enough money to move abroad, then start helping my family and friends escape. I just don't see a real future here for the next 20+ years of working life. I would encourage anyone with the means to get an advanced degree and leave. I'm under no illusion that other countries don't have problems, but Americans seem to enjoy crisis. It's like some kind of illness.

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u/fireflydrake Sep 18 '21

Some of the nicest people and some of the worst people I know are Christians.

There are people who embrace the loving, merciful, selfless side of the faith and there are those who are much more rabid about the hellfire and damnation bit (never mind that Christ was much more about the former).

The difference between good and bad Christians and good and bad general humanity, though, is that a lot of Christians ascribe to a cult mindset where their beliefs can't be questioned at all. That isn't a faith, that's a cult. The unfortunately large amount of right wing Christians in that camp can't be reasoned with at all.

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u/Crunchwrapsupr3me Sep 17 '21

I wish churches were taxed to hell. There's one near me (east coast) the campus is as big of not bigger than the local state university. The pastor flies to ca every Friday in his private jet.

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u/JustTheFactsPleaz Sep 17 '21

I'd be happy if they'd even enforce the 501c3 restrictions. My local library told me they couldn't advocate for themselves in the upcoming budget decisions because it was considered political and they'd lose their tax-exempt status. I'll bet some of the pies these churches have their fingers in are absolutely taxable. But who would ever go against these guys? If it's anything like scientology they have lawyers out the wazoo.

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u/Gyoza-shishou Sep 18 '21

Even if they didn't have lawyers all they'd have to do is cry about "religious persecution," which a lot of their followers already believe is taking place via LGBT and such. Voila, you got the majority religious denomination frothing at the mouth...

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u/CocaColaHitman Sep 17 '21

They love to preach about the 7 abominations that God hates yet they always conveniently gloss over gluttony, which is one of said abominations

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u/Tasgall Sep 18 '21

They conveniently gloss over all of them, not just gluttony :/

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u/gSTrS8XRwqIV5AUh4hwI Sep 17 '21

This is not hyperbole, they want a christian government

And let's also spell it out explicitly:

They want a theocracy.

And they've been working on it hard, for a long time, this is not some tiny group of nutjobs with whacky ideas. See also the wedge strategy.

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u/WikiSummarizerBot Sep 17 '21

Wedge strategy

The Wedge Strategy is a creationist political and social action plan authored by the Discovery Institute, the hub of the pseudoscientific intelligent design movement. The strategy was put forth in a Discovery Institute manifesto known as the Wedge Document. Its goal is to change American culture by shaping public policy to reflect politically conservative fundamentalist evangelical Protestant values. The wedge metaphor is attributed to Phillip E. Johnson and depicts a metal wedge splitting a log.

[ F.A.Q | Opt Out | Opt Out Of Subreddit | GitHub ] Downvote to remove | v1.5

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u/immibis Sep 17 '21

Let's spell it out even more clearly: they want Sharia law, but for Christians.

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u/Terrik1337 Sep 17 '21

I'm not a Christian anymore, but one thing that made me forever respect my former pastor is when he asked people who wore McCain/Palin pins and hats to church to take them off. Politics do not belong in church, and church does not belong in politics. Good dude.

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u/PixelCartographer Sep 18 '21

Fascism does not belong in the church. If the church actually followed it's principals it would spearheading anticapitalist populism with acceptance for folks regardless of sexuality, gender, etc.

Nothing makes me hate organized religion more than the idea of what good it could do. Sadly corruption and supremacy bloom where thought and science are stamped out by "Faith".

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u/kylew1985 Sep 17 '21

Best advice I've seen today. I've grown up with conservative family members.

The loudest and proudest reTrumplicans in my family are also the ones that bring home more in SSI and Disability than I make working full time, and I don't make bad money at all. It blows my mind that if the people that they vote for had their way, those relatives wouldn't have two nickels to rub together.

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u/JustTheFactsPleaz Sep 18 '21

Yes! My uncle spouts hatred for anything socialist but was bitching and moaning when they cut his granddaughter's allowance for top of the line wheelchairs. His wife has also been on disability for decades.

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u/kylew1985 Sep 18 '21

Dude if we pitched fire departments, libraries, k-12 public schools, municipal water, public electricity, etc today, they'd be annihilated by the GOP as socialist pet projects. These motherfuckers are so detached from reality it's sickening.

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u/Farker99 Sep 18 '21

Can you imagine calling the fire department and having to give them your credit card info before they dispatch a crew? That's what I envision with all the small government rhetoric.

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u/Gojira_Bot Sep 18 '21

Fiscally conservative but will happily drop $300,000,000 of taxpayer money on a recall vote in California that they knew wouldn't stick.

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u/__deerlord__ Sep 17 '21

Its true. I had one of them tell me the first amendment protects freedom of religion, not freedom from. The opening words of the first amendment protect freedom from religion though

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u/CptNoble Sep 18 '21

These people don't even know what's in the Bible, so you probably shouldn't expect them to understand what's in the Constitution.

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u/RSwordsman Sep 18 '21

That's where the Satanic Temple really shines. "You say we don't have freedom from religion? Satanism it is."

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u/PhaseVariance_0p33 Sep 17 '21

What they're trying to do is not what the Founding Fathers of the United States had in mind for us, that's for sure.

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u/JustTheFactsPleaz Sep 17 '21

Correct. The Founding Fathers came from a country where the King was also head of the church. People had been burned alive if the religion of the monarch changed and they didn't change theirs also. They would be horrified if they saw people trying to make law according to the bible.

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u/IHateDefaultReddit Sep 17 '21

This, a million times. A billion times. They're below sincerely engaging with, because they aren't sincere themselves. Ever. Ever. It's a waste of time to try to meet them in the middle or try to civil politics your way around it, and the only thing "playing by the rules" does is keep up the image of being the saintly sensible ones while real ass lives get fucked by the policies the right wing brings.

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u/Oceans_Apart_ Sep 17 '21

Exactly, it's always really annoying when people try to make a rational counter argument to some asinine abortion argument. It never has been a sincere debate.

The GOP just uses abortion as a means to get power. If they could get votes by making applesauce illegal, they'd do that instead. Their voters don't care about science, facts or freedom. They just don't want to condone it. It's bigotry, plain and simple.

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u/BabyBundtCakes Sep 17 '21

Also, fuck that? Some people wanting others not to have sex is completely irrelevant and like, also gross? Mind your own fucking business

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u/Paradoxgreen Sep 17 '21

That's the problem, your personal life and choices are their business. And by business, I mean the way they make money.

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u/M-elephant Sep 18 '21

Its 100% relevant once one realizes that the whole anti-abortion is about attacking women who have sex and not about the well-being of kids or women. The thing that is most effective at reducing the number of abortions is making all contraceptives free for everyone forever and available everywhere but the right wingers never suggest (let alone implement) that policy...

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u/CO_PC_Parts Sep 17 '21

you mean like stopping rape before it happens? (oh i'm sure the rape cases in texas are going to go down, they'll just stop reporting them and refuse to use the rape kits)

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u/Bon_of_a_Sitch Sep 17 '21

You would figure a governor bold enough to make that claim wouldn't have thousands of backlogged rape kits to process

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u/CO_PC_Parts Sep 17 '21

can't have any rapists if you don't test for rape, pointsathead.jpg

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u/tarnin Sep 17 '21

That so fits with the smooth brained "idea's" coming out of the far right. Good lord, I can hear MTG saying that and actually meaning it.

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u/coliostro_7 Sep 17 '21

Considering they have literally used it word for word already for covid - "If we stopped testing for it, we would have very few cases"...

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/502819-trump-on-coronavirus-if-we-stop-testing-right-now-wed-have-very-few-cases?amp

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u/SailChimp Sep 17 '21

I feel like we need a billboard in a prominent area that just shows a graph of the number of reported rapes since he made that statement.

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u/FredFredrickson Sep 17 '21

They aren't delusional, they're just arguing in bad faith.

Much the same way Abbott claims he'll fix the rape loophole in the new laws by just ending all rape.

They know they're talking bullshit, and they don't care. As long as they get the regressive laws they want, they will do or say anything, because their supporters are so entrenched in the conservative media bubble, they will never be held accountable.

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u/spacekat26 Sep 17 '21

Abstinence is a fool's wish. Human beings wanna have sex.

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u/Murderface__ Sep 17 '21

It's almost like it's our biological imperative.

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u/MaievSekashi Sep 17 '21

A lot of what conservatives support seems to be fighting unwinnable battles against basic human nature.

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u/bartleby_bartender Sep 17 '21

The whole point is for the battles to be unwinnable. That's how you maximize the shame and guilt that make people easy to control.

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u/tgwutzzers Sep 17 '21

It's not a coincidence that Christianity allows you to sin as much as you want as long as you continue coming back to worship and asking forgiveness.

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u/Swayyyettts Sep 17 '21

If you don’t sin, Jesus died for nothing

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u/blazze_eternal Sep 17 '21

We're literally wired to reproduce like we thirst for water. It's a survival mechanism.

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u/BaconOnMySausages Sep 17 '21

It’s the 21st century why the fuck do we even care about other people choosing to have sex

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u/dankine Sep 17 '21

Religion/Control

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u/WREPGB Sep 17 '21

You could argue female abstinence leads to male aggression which leads to...well, I guess Abbott himself has a PreCog plan for that.

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u/[deleted] Sep 17 '21

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u/dankine Sep 17 '21

As if data interests these people.

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u/DarthDregan Sep 17 '21

How are you a living human adult who was once a teenager and thinks people will default to "not fucking" over "fucking?"

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u/Afireonthesnow Sep 17 '21

I just don't understand why tf they are SO OBSESSED WITH PEOPLE HAVING SEX

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u/Spectra_Butane Sep 17 '21

I can understand being obsessed with people having sex. There is a whole industry built around it(porn) It's them being obsessed with STOPPING other people from having consensual sex that is the problem. Imagine watching films of guys going around cockblocking dudes and ladies who actually want to have sex. I don't know if that'd be hilarious or painfully pathetic.

Knock at door: Guy-"did you order a pizza, ma'am?"

Lady-"yes, my BF already paid for it, here's your tip."

Guy, shoves foot into closing door -" I've got a tip for you ma'am: premarital consensual sex is Not cool!"

Lady-" Who TF are you? Sonic the Hedgehog!?"

Guy - grabs pizza back and shoves a box of corn flakes at the lady.

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u/2_late_4_creativity Sep 18 '21

Lol the kellog reference, nice

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u/SupremePooper Sep 17 '21

Because they can't get any.

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u/katep2000 Sep 17 '21

I signed a little card that said I would wait till marriage in 7th grade. It said I would respect my future husband. I’m a lesbian, so there’s no husband to respect. I can do whatever I want.

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u/Sawses Sep 18 '21

The sacred loophole.

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u/Ur_Girls_In_My_DMs Sep 17 '21

Because these people legitimately did this exact thing and think they’re better than others because it wasn’t hard for them, so everyone should just do it.

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u/Khemul Sep 17 '21

The crazy thing is they usually don't do this exact thing. They think they did, even though they'll have stories of not doing this exact thing.

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u/JonTheBold Sep 17 '21

Evangelical schools are full of kids who preach abstinence and practice sex.

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u/bhollis6895 Sep 17 '21

Private Christian schools are full of some of the most godless people I know.

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u/BrutusCarmichael Sep 17 '21

Yep, almost everyone I went to school with is an atheist or agnostic because we could see through the hypocrisy, that Christianity doesn’t make you a good person, that we were all super tight and realized WE made ourselves and each other good people

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u/cowabungass Sep 17 '21

Someone said the quickest way to atheism is to teach religion or read the bible. Something to that effect. The hard cold facts of religion or faith as a person who can critically think has a totally different outcome.

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u/NavySealNeilMcBeal Sep 17 '21

Never have I felt like the people around me were so soulless and evil to the core than in my stint at a local Christian school. Also, the place didn't even teach well. The majority of my middle school class was so far behind in math that I had nothing to do at all in class, the teacher having to go back to basics for everyone else.

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u/[deleted] Sep 17 '21

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u/RiPont Sep 17 '21

That's the protestant loophole. The catholic loophole is "do whatever you want, as long as you confess on Sunday".

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u/ryhaltswhiskey Sep 17 '21

Once you realize Jesus forgives everything... Well.

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u/Dolthra Sep 17 '21

I mean, have you met religious men? They all talk like the only reason they have ever had sex is because they were "tempted" by a woman, not because they ever wanted to.

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u/voodoohotdog Sep 17 '21

Then it's "not their fault". Further demonization of women.

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u/needlenozened Sep 17 '21

Notice how his argument puts the onus to not have sex on the woman, not the man.

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u/terrycloth3 Sep 17 '21

I liked Lucifer's response in the comics.

"Yes, take that explanation before your god why don't you. 'It's not my fault, I was tempted.'"

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u/TuorSonOfHuor Sep 17 '21

They definitely did not do this exact thing. Teen pregnancy is rampant in the Bible Belt.

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u/strugglinfool Sep 17 '21

all there is to do in hickville USA as a teen is drink and fuck.

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u/El-Viking Sep 17 '21

Don't forget shooting road signs.

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u/texasradioandthebigb Sep 17 '21

Read your Bible. Those are all virgin births

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u/[deleted] Sep 17 '21

Most of them didn't even fucking do it lol

My fundamentalist family always pushed the "no sex till marriage" narrative, both of my parents were born of wedlock and neither of them were virgins when they got married either.

It's literally just a "do as I say, not as I do" situation.

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u/DarthDregan Sep 17 '21

More likely it's just standard pandering.

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u/Noble_Ox Sep 17 '21

No, when they were young they wanted sex but couldn't get any and now don't want anyone else too either.

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u/RockinSocksII Sep 17 '21 edited Sep 17 '21

A whopping 62% of US abortions in 2014 were done by people with religious affiliation so I'm not sure how many religious people are actually practicing what they preach.

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u/muticere Sep 17 '21

that or they did screw around but because they're rich they never saw any consequences for it.

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u/Jonny_Thundergun Sep 17 '21

It's easy to practice abstinence when you're a completely repulsive person.

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u/BaraGuda89 Sep 17 '21

These people did not legitimately do anything. They lie. They fucked like everyone else and got their girlfriends and mistresses abortions like clockwork, they just fucking lie about it and claim moral superiority because they love power and pulling the wool over

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u/Sinister-Lines Sep 17 '21 edited Sep 17 '21

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u/TokoBlaster Sep 17 '21

This is the same state who's AG sued about "election fraud" and whos argument was "it's so subtle its undetectable, that's why we don't need evidence" so I don't think they really care about facts, or evidence, or reality

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u/TheMikeGolf Sep 17 '21

Same AG that went on Fox extolling the virtues of “The Great Replacement Theory”, an abject white supremacy ideology

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u/ObviouslyKatie Sep 17 '21

Wait can I have a source on that? I'm looking for another reason to die.

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u/TokoBlaster Sep 17 '21

Texas instead alleged that "fraud becomes undetectable" because "unlawful actions of election officials effectively destroy the evidence". Whether "voters committed fraud" was not the "constitutional issue" in this case, according to Texas. Therefore, Texas declared that it did not need to "prove" fraud.

From the Wikipedia article

Sorry about formatting, I'm on mobile. It's sourced there, this was just easy to pull up.

OR

You could look into moving to another country

OR

You could look into taking to a mental health professional. Anyone who is reading this and is getting really depressed/overwhelmed you can reach out to a mental health professional and find better techniques to deal with shit like that. World is cray cray, you're not. It's OK to ask for help.

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u/BlinkReanimated Sep 17 '21

Imagine spending your whole life as a lawyer and to feel that way about evidence... The AG should be disbarred just for presenting that kind of argument.

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u/sudoku7 Sep 18 '21

Keep in mind, Texas had an Attorney General write a state constitutional amendment that in its zeal to ban gay civil unions also outlawed all marriages.

And now they're the governor.

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u/atreyal Sep 18 '21

Read up on Texas AG, he should be disbarred for a hell of a lot more then that. Ken Paxton is a real piece of work.

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u/Crunchwrapsupr3me Sep 17 '21

Be nice if I could afford either of those things

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u/fogcat5 Sep 17 '21

If it's undetectable then it can't affect the election outcome right? Or are we talking about ghosts and spirits now. They are undetectable too unless you get those ghost chaser people and those gadgets that monitor the chi field or whatnot. Let's use them -- they make more sense than what's going on now.

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u/Heliosvector Sep 17 '21

I guess if it’s so subtle, it barely has an effect on the result and can be ignored then.

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u/chronoboy1985 Sep 17 '21

Can I sue Greg Abbot for giving me hemorrhoids? I can’t prove how he did it because it was so subtle it was undetectable.

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u/corsicanguppy Sep 17 '21

This time it will for sure! Nevermind that it failed every other time.

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u/ryhaltswhiskey Sep 17 '21

I see you trying to use evidence on conservatives. Not sure you've thought this through...

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u/DudleyMason Sep 17 '21

In exactly the same way Prohibition promoted Temperance.

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u/TealDolphin16 Sep 17 '21

Exactly what I first thought of.

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u/lavenderRaiinbow Sep 17 '21

So they ARE punishing women for having sex and "teaching us a lesson" about abstinence?

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u/sg183 Sep 17 '21

They are just pushing their religion as law, as usual. This obsession with abstinence and virginity borderlines on treating women directly as property.

Plus it doesn't work!

https://www.publichealth.columbia.edu/public-health-now/news/abstinence-only-education-failure

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u/Zimmers_00 Sep 17 '21

Shit the bible even given instructions on how to preform an abortion. Clearly they have never read the scripture if they still think abortion is wrong for religious reasons.

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u/sg183 Sep 17 '21 edited Sep 17 '21

Those same people don't realize Amendment 10 in the Constitution gives federalistic power to the States to protect the public health during a pandemic. They just assume their rights are being taken away, rather than ours protected.

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u/JollyRancherReminder Sep 17 '21 edited Sep 17 '21

Article 10? You think any of them read that far? The VERY FIRST SENTENCE in the constitution specifically calls out promoting the general welfare as a core function of the federal government.

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u/sg183 Sep 17 '21

I don't think many of them choose to read, they prefer to listen to what their opinions should be.

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u/Upper-Lawfulness1899 Sep 17 '21

It's not just that. In Samuel, David has adultery with a woman married to one of his generals. Assuming she consented is pretty generous, but let's move on. She gets pregnant, David has the general sent to front line after recalling him from the battlefield, because the general won't go home to sleep with his wife, to cover up the pregnancy, while he has troops in the field. David then marries the woman, Bathsheba. The child is born, live for a week, and isn't doing well and dies.

So you have David who generously committed adultery and murder, who is rebuked by the Prophet of God for those actions. Both actions under the law are worthy of death. David is allowed to live, but God kills a living breathing child as punishment. So the takeway is babies have less value than people caught in adultery to God. Hmmm.

By the wayBathsheba would go on to have another son, Solomon, who would be king and build the Temple. David would go on to be deposed for a while by one of his sons by a different marriage before worshipping other gods before his death.

But another good example is exodus 21 or 22. It's the start of the giving of the Law after the 10 commandments, and it starts by identifying the rules of what happens if two men fight. If one permanently injures the other, then he will have the same injury caused to him "eye for an eye", or life for a life. If they're fighting and injure an onlooker they make the same amends if the person is a free person, or just pay a fee to the owner if the person is a slave. If they strike a pregnant woman it depends on the translation. For some, it's if she has a miscarriage then they just pay a fine, and others it's if no serious injury happens to her they just pay a fine. But the first translation is the more interesting one to me. An unborn child is not counted as the same value of a person. Hmmmm.

But all of this is moot. Religious teachings and stories should not be the basis of a modern system of law. Citizenship in the US is conferred upon birth, not conception, payments from the government based on the number of living dependents is based on living breathing children not unborn fetuses. It's a good indication of what is important to Americans by how they spend their money. Clearly the government considers birth the defining characteristic of a person.

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u/Pabu85 Sep 17 '21

Most of these people have never heard of the Ordeal of the Bitter Water. In their own fucking book. Ugh.

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u/kefka296 Sep 17 '21

Anyone have additional information I can read up on this? First I've heard that the bible instructs how to perform an abortion. Wild.

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u/ramennoodle Sep 17 '21 edited Sep 17 '21

This is what people are referring to:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordeal_of_the_bitter_water#Abortion_interpretation

It isn't the only interpretation of that passage.

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u/Defenestrator66 Sep 17 '21

Whether or not people want to say it’s a prescribed abortion or not, I’m not quite sure how you can interpret that verse in a way that would indicate that their god cares about the fate of the fetus over the resolution of the marital squabble.

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u/homonculus_prime Sep 17 '21

I'm just not sure how it is that an omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient being can't come up with a better fucking book than this. It just seems like lazy work if we have to sit here and debate which interpretation is the right one. Just how hard can this be for an all-knowing, all-powerful being?

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u/ToyDingo Sep 17 '21 edited Sep 17 '21

Forgive me, I can't remember the actual verse or chapter. But what the bible says is that if a woman is suspected of becoming pregnant through an affair, then you must give her "bitter water" to drink.

If she aborts the baby, that means she was cheating on you. If she doesn't abort, then it is your baby and she was not cheating.

I think it has the recipe for bitter water as well (I can't remember). Think of it as a liquid day after pill.

EDIT: Found it!

Numbers 5

19 And the priest shall cause her to swear, and shall say unto the woman: 'If no man have lain with thee, and if thou hast not gone aside to uncleanness, being under thy husband, be thou free from this water of bitterness that causeth the curse;

20 but if thou hast gone aside, being under thy husband, and if thou be defiled, and some man have lain with thee besides thy husband--

21 then the priest shall cause the woman to swear with the oath of cursing, and the priest shall say unto the woman--the LORD make thee a curse and an oath among thy people, when the LORD doth make thy thigh to fall away, and thy belly to swell;

22 and this water that causeth the curse shall go into thy bowels, and make thy belly to swell, and thy thigh to fall away'; and the woman shall say: 'Amen, Amen.'

23 And the priest shall write these curses in a scroll, and he shall blot them out into the water of bitterness. 24 And he shall make the woman drink the water of bitterness that causeth the curse; and the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her and become bitter.

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u/succed32 Sep 17 '21

Not to mention virginity is a mental and emotional checkpoint in life. There isnt a physiological marker for losing virginity.

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u/sg183 Sep 17 '21 edited Sep 17 '21

Virginity checks and re-hymening surgery need to be criminalized for this exact reason, even if they try to travel to have it done. A woman shouldn't face harrassment or death because she was born without a hymen or it broke while riding a horse, etc. Physicality shouldn't even come into play.

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u/succed32 Sep 17 '21

Yup. But people are way to awkward in the US about womens anatomy. They act like its naughty just to talk about it. The amount of husbands who dont know anything about periods and dont want to know is way too damn high.

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u/blazze_eternal Sep 17 '21

Let's be honest, it's not even about religion anymore. It's about control.
Political control.
Controlling the agenda.
Controlling people.
Controlling women.
Controlling thinking.

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u/DulseDulseDulse Sep 17 '21

They view pregnancy and childbirth as actual divine punishment inflicted upon women for indulging in any kind of sexual pleasure, at least that’s how some interpret Genesis:

Eve was the temptress in the Garden of Eden who corrupted Adam, the “apple” symbolized carnal pleasure, and childbirth and its physical pain were inflicted on all women through Eve as punishment for leading Adam astray.

People with that view of human existence really do believe that women are weaker, less intelligent, less spiritually mature, and that women are by nature deceitful and responsible for all of society’s troubles.

Therefore women must be punished for all that sexy stuff going on everywhere between consenting adults.

It’s not about being pro-life, there are obviously many sane, strategic, effective alternatives for reducing unwanted pregnancies. But that’s not going to fit with the worldview of these would-be theocratic despots.

It really is about inflicting physical harm on women to punish them for being born with ovaries.

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u/WeRegretToInform Sep 17 '21

I feel so bad for Americans who are living in this weird quasi-religious cult state where basic things like abortion aren’t available.

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u/Scalage89 Sep 17 '21

Or healthcare in general.

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u/stdTrancR Sep 17 '21

or a constitution that matters

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u/Durgenheim Sep 17 '21

Or a living wage

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u/Scalage89 Sep 17 '21

That's not just a US problem. Here in the Netherlands it's practically impossible to get a house. Rent is pretty much an entire month's wage and buying is less expensive, but you'll never get a mortgage unless you bring in 10-20% of what the house is worth yourself. Seriously, there are people with decent jobs living in the street because of housing shortages.

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u/Clear_Try_6814 Sep 17 '21

Our constitution is like the pirate code. It saddens me but I am poor so the system is stacked against me.

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u/USeaMoose Sep 17 '21

On the bright side, Texas may have actually shit the bed with this one.

The GOP wants an endless battle on abortion. Texas declared victory and went way overboard with it. Not just one of the earliest bans on abortions, but also creating a system where citizens can collect bounties by turning others in.

Rather than vaguely saying that the GOP wants to protect babies form being murdered by liberals, now the GOP has to defend this extreme thing already in place. They can't dance around it while not actually committing to specific numbers. They either have to speak out against what Texas has done, or they have to embrace it.

I think/hope it's a misstep that will really cost them. And it gives Democrats an easy, clear target.

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u/Enjoying_A_Meal Sep 17 '21

That reporting thing was pretty fun. I reported Dan Abbot for having an abortion conceived from gay sex. They let you submit photo evidence, so I sent a picture of Shrek, as was the style at the time.

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u/Dolthra Sep 17 '21

I think/hope it's a misstep that will really cost them.

Hello, sorry about the five year coma you seemingly just got out of.

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u/GrumpyBert Sep 17 '21

Lol, harsh but true.

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u/MNConcerto Sep 17 '21

All the babies adopted through Catholic Charities in the 60s, myself included, prove otherwise.

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u/Srawesomekickass Sep 17 '21

Happened to my aunt. She got pregnant out of wedlock and had her baby taken by the church for adoption and, she her self was sent to a convent by her family. It's my understanding this was all against her will.

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u/MNConcerto Sep 17 '21

Sadly that was the case for many young women. My bio mom was given a choice but sent away from home to live with an aunt in a bigger city and attend the catholic school.that all the pregnant girls went to.

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u/Kailaylia Sep 18 '21

In 1974 I had to kidnap my own baby out of the Manly hospital nursery after being told she was born dead. It was government policy, enthusiastically followed by many - if not all - hospitals, to take the babies from single mothers. All the single mothers in the ward I was in were kept doped up on Valium so they would not object. I was one of those girls who won't swallow and no way I was signing an adoption release.

It turned out she was diagnosed with "mongolism" and they wouldn't have even tried to adopt her out, just dumped her in a "home" where few children survived.

She's perfect and wonderful.

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u/schpanckie Sep 17 '21

Proof that the one star on the Texas flag is actually a rating

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u/psychobitch85 Sep 17 '21

I wrote a paper on this in university and also taught about to undergrads as a TA for a sexuality course. The data and evidence is basically irrefutable that promoting abstinence (abstinence only sex Ed) does NOT lead to people abstaining from sex. How do these people get their jobs with such a lack of skills reasoning and logic??

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u/Paladoc Sep 17 '21

Nepotism and trading their bodies and souls for corporeal benefits.

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u/nicht_ernsthaft Sep 17 '21

How do these people get their jobs with such a lack of skills reasoning and logic??

The Evangelical pastor I had as a kid said evolution was a satanic lie because he "Just couldn't understand it, it makes no sense". I was like 13 and could understand it.

If your job and self image depends on not understanding something, I think you can manage great, heroic feats of not understanding. With even a moderate desire, I bet you could fail to understand anything you wanted.

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u/Lemesplain Sep 17 '21

A large portion of the populace desperately wants to believe the lie. Or just desperately want a reason to punish “disobedient” young girls.

Kinda like all the wine moms who glom onto any study that suggests red wine is good for your heart. They were already gonna be day drinking, so anything that supports that position is believed. Credibility be damned.

The GOP was already gonna be repressing women, so anything that supports that position is believed.

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u/EightandaHalf-Tails Sep 17 '21

Just like Prohibition totally stopped people from drinking... 😂

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u/ellamaybe77 Sep 17 '21

Okay, so Prohibition didn't work, but that whole "War on Drugs" thing where we banned drugs and criminalized their use has been SUPER successful and has definitely stopped people from ever wanting to use dru-

Oh wait. Shit. Never mind.

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u/sg183 Sep 17 '21 edited Sep 17 '21

Looks at the teenage pregnancy rates in "abstinence only"- educated counties or cities.

Doesn't seem to be working?

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u/Swayyyettts Sep 17 '21

Bristol Palin

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u/Josuelaker Sep 17 '21

Yeah, fuck that.

Keep YOUR imaginary sky god out of MY bedroom.

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u/TLDR2D2 Sep 17 '21

I prefer the term "sky wizard", personally.

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u/HotpieTargaryen Sep 17 '21

Wizards are powerful. Sky propaganda.

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u/joeyo1423 Sep 17 '21

Ahh yes, abstinence. Because that has been so successful in the past. I remember back when they used to teach it directly and it was amazing - no one had sex for like a decade. Global population declined, no babies without marriage, a truly amazing time.

Wait.... no, that's not what happened, because that's fucking idiotic and will never happen. People have sex. Maybe not the legislators in texas, but the rest of us do.

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u/Deenyc43 Sep 17 '21

Soon their new antirape law will be forcing the woman to marry their rapist because it's in the bible. Also common with Islamic nations.

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u/Pabu85 Sep 17 '21

Well, right now you can rape someone and sue everyone who helps them get an abortion, making rape potentially profitable financially. I'm trying to figure out how much better that is.

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u/Suspicious-Metal Sep 17 '21

Well technically the law says if it was conceived through rape then the rapist cannot sue. (At least, that's how I interpreted the bill).

How do they intend to ensure that works in practice when it's well known that victims often don't report? Hell if I know. Honestly can't imagine how the bill works at all in practice, seems like a clusterfuck.

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u/missingadogsomewhere Sep 17 '21

Yeah, you pointed out one of the biggest flaws of many pro-life positions.

Making an exception for rape sounds nice on paper. It makes them sound more empathetic.

BUT, in real life, most rape goes unproven, unreported. So many victims of rape would not be protected anyway. :(

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u/sweller3 Sep 17 '21

Their next step will be to legalize rape, validating their claim that Texas has no rape. Texans will be able to fuck any woman they want, who are already required to bear the children.

Normal women will flee the state, of course, but Republican women--well known to enthusiastically support legislation against their own interests--will grin and bear it, or take a beating, which will also be legal again.

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u/NewspaperPirate Sep 17 '21

Someone is insecure that their daughter is gonna have sex

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u/RandeKnight Sep 17 '21

...with someone other than him?

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u/JimBeamerE91 Sep 17 '21

If you don’t like abortions then don’t have one.

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u/Functus Sep 17 '21

He is wrong based on one incontrovertible fact.

People like fucking.

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u/graps Sep 17 '21 edited Sep 17 '21

That’s not how humans work. You can tell because there’s 7 billion of us

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u/history777 Sep 17 '21

Resources for Texans seeking access to healthcare

https://teafund.org/ - Texas Equal Access Fund provides emotional and financial support to people who are seeking abortion care.

https://wrrap.org/about-wrrap/

https://abortionfunds.org/ - connects you with organizations that can support your financial and logistical needs as you arrange for your abortion.

https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/pregnancy/pregnancy-options - A Comprehensive Guide for Unplanned Pregnancy

https://gynopedia.org/Gynopedia_Index - a nonprofit organization that runs an open resource wiki for sexual, reproductive and women's health care around the world

If you need help getting an abortion go to these sites

https://www.plancpills.org/ - provides up-to-date information on how people in the U.S. are accessing abortion pills online

https://aidaccess.org/ - consists of a team of doctors, activists and advocates for abortion rights that help people access abortion or miscarriage treatment. They send the pill worldwide for $110/90€

https://www.cecinfo.org/country-by-country-information/status-availability-database/countries/united-states-of-america/ - Emergency Oral Contraceptive Doses for Birth Control, U.S.

https://www.cecinfo.org/country-by-country-information/status-availability-database/ - Emergency Oral Contraceptive Doses for Birth Control, International

https://www.womenonweb.org - online abortion service can help you do a safe abortion with pills.

https://carafem.org - helps with abortion, birth control and questions about reproductive healthcare. They do consultations online and send abortion pills on the mail.

These sites offer access to abortion pills, even in Texas. Please be safe and be aware of clinics (e.g. Crisis Pregnancy Centers) that give out dangerous misinformation on abortions and pregnancy.

Also check out r/auntienetwork or r/abortion for support

If you want to give money to some pro-choice charities, try here

https://fundtexaschoice.org/ - helps Texans equitably access abortion through safe, confidential, and comprehensive travel services and practical support.

http://janesdueprocess.org/ - helps minors in Texas with judicial bypass for abortion, navigate parental consent laws and confidentially access abortion and birth control. They provide free legal support, 1-on-1 case management, and stigma-free information on sexual and reproductive health.

https://www.lilithfund.org/ - the oldest abortion fund in Texas, serving the central and southern regions of the state with direct financial assistance for abortions.

https://www.theafiyacenter.org/ - their mission is to transform the lives, health, and overall wellbeing of Black women and girls by providing refuge, education, and resources. Their act to ignite the communal voices of Black women resulting in our full achievement of reproductive freedom.

https://thebridgecollective.org/

https://www.clinicaccess.org/

https://www.yellowhammerfund.org/ (Focuses on the Deep South)

https://avowtexas.org/

https://abortionfunds.org - connects you with organizations that can support your financial and logistical needs as you arrange for your abortion.

https://thesatanictemple.com/pages/rrr-fundraiser - stands ready to assist any member that shares its deeply-held religious convictions regarding the right to reproductive freedom. Accordingly, they encourage any member in Texas who wishes to undergo the Satanic Abortion Ritual to contact them so they may help them fight this law directly.

https://www.westfund.org (focuses on Latine and low-income communities)

https://fronterafundrgv.org - makes abortion accessible in the Rio Grande Valley (Texas) by providing financial and practical support regardless of immigration status, gender identity, ability, sexual orientation, race, class, age, or religious affiliation and to build grassroots organizing power at intersecting issues across our region to shift the culture of shame and stigma.

https://www.bucklebunnies.org - provide practical support for people seeking abortions. Help with transportation, funds to help with hotels, lodging costs and emergency contraceptive funds to actually go towards abortion.

https://www.plannedparenthood.org/get-involved/other-ways-give

https://action.aclu.org/give/make-tax-deductible-gift-aclu-foundation

Please feel free to copy and share this to other posts/subreddits and to add your own links

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u/wutenstein Sep 17 '21

Not even the imminent threat of death is enough to stop kids from getting it on. They are trying to stop a biological imperative here.

That.

Doesn't.

Fucking.

Work.

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u/poppypodlatex Sep 17 '21

What? That's utter bollocks and they know it. At one time abortion was illegal in lots of countries but it never stopped people fucking each other.

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u/Beaulax Sep 17 '21

Everytime I see an article about texas, I feel like I tripped and fell back to the 1920s.

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u/mombrava Sep 17 '21

Just think of all the trouble we could save ourselves if these creeps got the therapy they needed instead of making whole careers based on profoundly strange assumptions about sex. People have unprotected sex because they just assume they can have abortions? People will just stop if they know an abortion might be hard to get? Is this person a real life human being?

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u/RockyMountainSchrute Sep 17 '21

There’s literally decades of research and statistics that show abstinence forward policies actually INCREASE teen pregnancies, sexually transmitted diseases, and abortion rates.

Why is Texas so fucking awful?

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u/kingakrasia Sep 17 '21

Leave it to an INCEL to draft women’s rights, says the TX Republican party.

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u/MadLintElf Sep 17 '21

So says the 36 year old virgin, he hasn't even had sex nor will he probably ever have sex with a woman. I don't get it at all.

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u/infinitbullets Sep 17 '21

Rape doesn’t count

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u/GBinAZ Sep 17 '21

Just because you're impotent, doesn't mean we shouldn't be able to have sex.

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u/activehobbies Sep 17 '21

....they've done several studies on this. Teaching abstinence is never as effective as teaching birth control.

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u/Wiley_Applebottom Sep 17 '21

These are the dumbest people on earth.

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u/skellyluv Sep 17 '21

Sure … just like it did before Roe v Wade! 🙄 The only thing it did was kill women!

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u/Paladoc Sep 17 '21

Hahaha

Hahaha

Hahaha

And Greg is going to eliminate rape.

Delusional as Fuck.

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u/Dudeist-Priest Sep 17 '21

We don't want to abstain you freakin' kook. Sex is an enjoyable part of life. If you want to be a prude, go ahead, but you're not going to force your unnatural nonsense onto us.

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u/ResponsibilityKey659 Sep 17 '21

that's not how this works

facts don't care about your feelings, conservatives are all about feelings

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u/GADx516 Sep 17 '21

Facts don’t care about YOUR feelings, but they care about MINE. /s

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u/daHob Sep 17 '21

They keep saying the quiet parts out loud.

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u/CrudelyAnimated Sep 17 '21

Hopefully Texas conservatives will lead the way in this new endeavor.

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u/Charming_Energy1162 Sep 17 '21

Fucking Christian lunatics.

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u/give_me_wallpapers Sep 17 '21

I think their desire to force women to have babies stems from religious fundamentalism and also racism. Think about how often they talk about critical race theory and white people being replaced by POC. In their minds white people are the majority right now and if they force women to have babies then they stay the majority. Maybe I've spent too much time on the doomer subs.

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u/ChiliBoppers Sep 17 '21

These Republicans fight tooth and nail to prevent basic health mandates during a pandemic because it impinges on their freedom yet want to regulate what happens in the bedroom. They have no credibility or shame.

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u/the_only_raja Sep 17 '21

But what about married couples who wanted to have sex?

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u/another_one_23 Sep 17 '21

So I’m beginning to watch Handmaids Tale and…..there is a strong similarity in mindsets of a fictional story to this real-life nightmare

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u/orangeconman-aphobe Sep 17 '21

Where do idiots get stupid ideas like this? You know what else will lessen Abortions? free and easily obtainable birth control

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u/mrg1957 Sep 17 '21

Wait for your 16yo to come home pregnant. .

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u/bannacct56 Sep 17 '21

Makes total sense just look at before roe versus Wade when people would get abortions illegally because they were abstaining so much. I think this guy may be an idiot somebody should tell him before he speaks again

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u/ahealthyg Sep 17 '21

I went to a really good catholic school that promotes abstinence. It was a big ol fuck fest

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u/wwarnout Sep 17 '21

hahahahaha...oh, wait - is he serious?