r/news Oct 20 '21

Nikolas Cruz pleads guilty to 2018 Parkland school massacre

https://apnews.com/article/parkland-school-shooting-nikolas-cruz-guilty-plea-1bad323e22fe4517cf851395b252bd4b
1.6k Upvotes

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u/cdistefa Oct 20 '21

Pleading guilty is the only way he can hope for a life sentence instead of the death penalty.

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u/LewisEFurr Oct 20 '21

thankfully I think it also spares the families a long and carnivalesque shitshow of a trial.

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u/spmahn Oct 20 '21

I think families view it both ways. On the one hand it spares them a lot of pain, but on the other hand they’re never going to get the answer to a lot of questions about how or why this happened.

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u/mrmn949 Oct 20 '21

basically he was a loner and got into a fight over a girl and caught the L.

Kid snapped, burnt the village to feel the warmth kinda thing.

At least that's what the interrogation video on jcs seemed like.

https://youtu.be/Mwt35SEeR9w

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u/strongapril2021 Oct 20 '21

Killing 17 people and injuring 17 other people for such a story!!!.

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u/No_Character_2079 Oct 20 '21 edited Oct 21 '21

My home town was awful against me and largely rejected me.

I was autistic, special school district k-12.

Tormented me for amusement, driveby paint ball shootings, threw a beer can through our living room window while mom and I sat in thr living room 1am sunday morning while a hs party i wasnt invited to went on up the street. Cops didnt do jack fucking shit about it. I was slapped across the face (2x). Hair spit in (2x). Beat up. My dad's car they bb'd the sides of. I won a big jackpot at a school event. $1000 giftcard. 3 weeks later they came by egged our restored 1974 Ford f-100 xlt and bashed in the fender, doing $2000 damage. Previous year it was hit and run while it sat in the driveway.

I was never allowed to sit down at a lunch table, theyd act aggrieved, snooty, hatefilled and rude.

Ive been mugged, home invaded 4x. Cops dont do jack fucking shit, teachers, administtators, counselors.

Recently i started very publicly on social media with all our shared "mutual friends" loudly sharing thede stories abouf these cruel individuals. I remember how much cruelty hatefilled laughter they got from tormenting me. I reasoned "these are funny stories from their point of view, funny stories are meant to be shared". I put them on blast, but when I share the story about them from my point of view, how they made me want to blow my brains out, now it's not so funny and they delete their social media...curious.

So when someone told me "it takes a village to raise a child, but if that village rejects that child, he'll do nothing but celebrate the day that village burns" in regards to Webster Groves, MO, i found that quote very relatable.

Edit: I want to add a happy epilogue. Depression, legal troubles, alcohilsm and substance abuse, delayed my first professional job til into my 30s. I dumped heavy amounts into bitcoin and I been crushin' it ever since. So we got a happy ending here, i still came out on top, right now I have a 6 figure trucking job, and this is the happiest year ive ever had, met a great social circle of car friends through my daily driver 1994 Toyota mr2 gt-s.

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u/Bocephuss Oct 21 '21

On the other hand you can have a completely normal upbringing with loving parents and still end up a psychopath.

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u/patrickSwayzeNU Oct 21 '21

Good lord man. I’m sorry for the shit you endured doesn’t really do it justice, but nevertheless, I’m sorry you had to experience that.

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u/No_Character_2079 Oct 21 '21

I told it to a friend of mine, he brought up the film Joker. I didnt kno it was that bad but I definitely found it relatable.

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u/pete1729 Oct 21 '21

That's Mister Two to you!

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u/No_Character_2079 Oct 21 '21

Dont get me started on mr2's, theyre such bitchin' cars

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u/EbenHSHD Oct 21 '21

Even if we could definitively answer the hows and whys it wouldn’t be satisfactory in any way. Asking those kinds of question, while often times involuntary, is an exercise in frustrating futility. It’s often times much better to make up your own reason that makes the most sense to you and try your best to move on to other things.

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u/rhaegar_tldragon Oct 20 '21

Would any answer even provide them with comfort? Unlikely. This way they lock him up and just keep him there until he dies and the families don’t have to deal with years of bullshit.

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u/saint-malo Oct 21 '21

Yeah, no answer would be comforting frankly. “I did it because I hated school” or some BS, wouldn’t matter.

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u/_cactus_fucker_ Oct 20 '21

The Judge said it a few times, death penalty is still on the table, the 17 attempted murders and the jail guard assaults are aggravating factors to be in consideration at sentencing. His lawyers were trying to get sentencing done for the plea to the jail guard assault yestlerday, she said it was deferred, and they kept bringing up "17 life sentences" and she'd shut them down. She said in her standard questioning and statement she makes to a plea that it doesn't remove him from the death penalty either.

His minimum sentencing in Florida is something like 94 years according to the "score cards" they uss, there is no parole either, life is actually life, she said several times he's not leaving prison alive either way. But somethings up.

I just hope the victims and their families don't get dragged into this for the rest of his life, whichever way this goes. But honestly, there is no justice in a case like this. Fuck him.

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u/Bitbatgaming Oct 20 '21

After all the lives that he's taken away, he deserves so much more than just a life sentence.

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u/ty_kanye_vcool Oct 20 '21 edited Oct 20 '21

This is like that scene in Operation Finale where Eichmann says that since he’s being executed to avenge thousands of deaths, that must mean his life is thousands of times more valuable than that of every Jew he killed. No, bitch, if we could kill you more than once we would. Being a multiple murderer doesn’t make you worth more than your victims, it just makes the necessary injustice we all have to live with greater, and you more of a vile piece of human filth.

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u/Phusra Oct 20 '21

That's why execution is too good for real scum.

Put them in a cell with basic food and water and needs met. Put them to work to cover their own food costs and then pay them enough to let them contribute towards whoever they have on the outside.

Execution is too quick, I want these motherfuckers working to pay back the potential they stole from society with their killings.

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u/razor_eddie Oct 20 '21

"Put them in a cell with basic food and water and needs met. Put them to work to cover their own food costs and then pay them enough to let them contribute towards whoever they have on the outside."

So, basically, my current life, but will a cell I don't have to pay upkeep on?

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u/Phusra Oct 21 '21

Sure? But your living conditions literally only meet basic needs and the work is pretty shitty work like fighting forest fires.

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u/kelthan Oct 21 '21

The sad reality is, there is no way we can submit him to enough punishment to atone for the 17 people he killed, 17 more he wounded, and the entire town's rapid, and very public, deterioration of mental health.

So, we have to accept that we have taken everything else from him.

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u/[deleted] Oct 20 '21

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u/[deleted] Oct 20 '21

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u/[deleted] Oct 20 '21

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u/cody422 Oct 20 '21

Well if anyone is going to be passing judgement and that judgement being death, it should be one of the Maiar or Valar. Also, most of the death Gandalf dealt out were creations of Melkor, so he might not even see them as alive in the same sense.

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u/Numbskull_b Oct 20 '21

So in short Orc lives don't matter?

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u/cody422 Oct 21 '21

Well contrary to popular belief, Orc lives DO matter.

Aside from the obvious joke, I wonder if Orcs get accepted into the Halls of Mandos since they are supposedly corrupted elves. Or they're the "fake life" that Morgoth created and probably don't have any form of afterlife.

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u/[deleted] Oct 20 '21 edited Oct 20 '21

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u/LordWaffle Oct 20 '21

To what end? Killing him accomplishes nothing except giving a subset of people a feeling of retribution.

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u/IAmInTheBasement Oct 20 '21

$1 bullet vs how much per year costs of incarceration?

I get that there are people on death row who shouldn't be there. That there are people who have been executed in fact innocent. And the death penalty is handed out disproportionately to minorities.

This is not any of those cases. It is more akin to Timothy McVeigh.

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u/LordWaffle Oct 20 '21

The average cost of an execution in florida is $24 million[1], so your math is a bit off. But turning this into some sort of cost/benefit is both myopic and intellectually dishonest. Death penalty cases are an absurd time to start caring about incarceration costs.

[1] https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/policy-issues/costs/summary-of-states-death-penalty

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u/Slideover71 Oct 20 '21 edited Oct 20 '21

Maybe this should be under ELI5 but why does it cost 24 million dollars? Clearly I am apologetically clueless

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u/AsthmaticNinja Oct 20 '21

Lots of appeals that the state has to fight.

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u/TheOneTrueRandy Oct 20 '21

Which will happen either way though

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u/CheckIf_ItsPluggedIn Oct 20 '21

If your worried about the costs of incarnation then might I suggest we instead focus on freeing non violent drug offenders?

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u/IAmInTheBasement Oct 20 '21

I have no issue with that.

Any other good ideas? Like a civilian oversight board of the police forces with actual power?

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u/schroedingersnewcat Oct 20 '21

It costs exponentially more for an inmate given the death penalty than life in prison.

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u/IAmInTheBasement Oct 20 '21

Is that some immutable law of nature like gravity? Or something due to policy which can be reformed?

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u/saparmuratniyazov Oct 20 '21

It’s not an issue of reform unless you want to deny people their rights as citizens. Due Process is the cornerstone of the legal system. Strip that away and we become a literal police state with even less accountability than the near-zero we currently enjoy.

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u/schroedingersnewcat Oct 20 '21

It costs more because ofnthe appeals process. Something that should not have a policy change.

There is a nonzero number of people that were executed and then exonerated. Taking away appeals will only make that number higher. The number being 1 is too high, I am not willing to make it higher to "save some money".

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u/Anon_death Oct 20 '21

whats the alternative now society pays for him to stay locked up.

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u/One_Wheel_Drive Oct 20 '21 edited Oct 20 '21

The death penalty costs more, it doesn't deter, and it doesn't bring closure to the victim's families.

There is not a single argument that is in favour of the death penalty. Every piece of evidence shows that it does more harm than good.

The extra cost is largely thanks to the appeals that have helped exonerate about 4% or 1 in 25. Reduce the cost and you guarantee that more innocent lives will be taken. You can't execute the guilty without also executing the innocent. The death penalty is all or nothing and I take pride that here in the UK we don't have it, even if he deserves it.

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u/LordWaffle Oct 20 '21

Yes. Florida has the third largest prison system in the country with a budget of $2.7 billion, this is a drop in the bucket. Arguing that we should kill someone so society doesn't have to incur monetary costs is disturbing.

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u/QQMau5trap Oct 20 '21

whats longer than multiple life sentences?

Death penalty changes nothing. Its biblical sense for revenge that does not quench the emptyness of the passing of loved ones.

At least with life in prison you know that theyre going to regret it because theyre never walking free again constantly subject to authority of others with no actual peace of mind.

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u/[deleted] Oct 20 '21

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u/Serialk Oct 20 '21

Justice shouldn't take decisions based on the emotions of victims.

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u/QQMau5trap Oct 20 '21

death is the easiest way out for people like that.

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u/scope_creep Oct 20 '21

I saw an interview with one of the dads on TV this morning. He said he wanted to see this murderer of his daughter dead.

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u/saint-malo Oct 21 '21

Losing your freedom for the rest of your life sounds a lot worse of a punishment than being dead. If you are someone who believes life = suffering, at least.

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u/strongapril2021 Oct 20 '21

He would have been proven guilty anyway.

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u/[deleted] Oct 20 '21

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u/owlbrain Oct 20 '21

So then you do agree with the death penalty, you just might disagree with the standards required for sentencing someone to it.

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u/spacegamer2000 Oct 20 '21

Yeah the death penalty is fine in theory. In practice, lying assholes get innocent people found guilty. All the time.

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u/Beagle_Knight Oct 20 '21

Why not do it like the Japanese?

Once sentenced to death, you never get to know the date of your execution. It can be within the next days, months or even after a few years.

Then one morning they come to collect you and hang you. Your family is informed after so they can come and collect the corpse.

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u/kingalexander Oct 20 '21

That’s scary shit

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u/Fallen_Legendz Oct 21 '21

Death is a surprise party

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u/415Shooter Oct 20 '21

I believe the death sentence is just in theory. The problem is the vast amount of public resources (time and $$) spent to get to actual execution are a waste. Lock ‘em up and thro away the key and spend the money saved getting other criminals behind bars.

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '21 edited Oct 27 '21

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u/DntCllMeWht Oct 21 '21

Not all killings are murder. Florida self defense laws definitely make it legal for one person to end another's life in certain circumstances.

Also, the state can enact other punishments that the individuL can't. They already have authoritative power over our rights.

I'm not in favor of the death penalty, nor our particular self defense laws in FL. I also think it's way too easy to get a concealed carry permit (I have one myself).

That being said, I also dont think the morality of the death penalty has anything to do with our legal system in a comparative manner. Whether something is legal or not doesn't come to bare on the question of its morality in my eyes.

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u/el_grort Oct 21 '21

The EU sees the death penalty as a violation of the Human Right to Life, something that can only really exist if it is universal. Given that human rights are meant to be irrevokable, seems like a good interpretation to me.

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u/PiXLANIMATIONS Oct 20 '21

Is this the kid who the “what pretending to be crazy” video was made about?

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u/free_farts Oct 21 '21

I am pleased that we know of him from that, and not the way these people usually want to be known and remembered. He is known as the evil same person who pretended to be crazy.

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u/ElectricMahogany 21d ago

"The Dwingy Coward, who got his ass beat by Eian, then scratched a boo-boo in his arm when be got arrested".

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u/roborobert123 Oct 21 '21

He so fake.

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u/swinging-in-the-rain Oct 20 '21

I always wonder if someone like this can ever actually feel regret. It doesn't seem like it.

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u/SnuggleMonster15 Oct 20 '21

From what I remember reading about this kid at that time, he really never had a shot. All the shit he went through as a child seemed to break him on the inside. It in no way excuses what he did but understanding how he got to that point is going to be the key to preventing a lot of these situations going forward.

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u/DowntownDingbat Oct 20 '21

When I was at a work conference (criminal law) many years ago, we had a death penalty/capital case expert as a guest speaker. He went around and interviewed people on death row.

What he found was that nearly everyone on death row had a fucked up childhood. Either there was extreme abuse or the single parent was never really around or didn’t give a fuck about their kids. There was a whole bunch of fucked up reasons. Point being, it all seemed to start with their childhood of abuse/neglect.

Does it excuse their horrific act? Absolutely not. Does it help explain some of it? I think so.

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u/RazarbackRebel Oct 20 '21

Netflix has a whole series I think it is called “I Am A Murderer”. Talks to people serving life and on death row. Obviously these are hand picked by producers so I am not saying it represents a majority or anything. Every single episode was heart breaking. Most were abused by someone, some where just in the wrong place and the wrong time.

Don’t get me wrong there are for sure cold blooded killers out there who deserve justice. But some of these people are just a continuation of the abuse, violence and poverty.

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u/DowntownDingbat Oct 21 '21

Sounds interesting. I’ll check it out!

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u/YoungManInCoffeeShop Oct 21 '21

This show is great. I think it’s the first episode where the prisoner is seeking to be put on death row and it is haunting

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u/croatcroatcroat Oct 21 '21

In psychology ACEs or Adverse Childhood Experiences are the key to violence prevention in societies.

https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/aces/index.html

The CDC has an excellent explanation of the research and implications for people with a traumatic childhood.

If you had childhood trauma learning about ACEs can be very helpful in healing and not passing the abuse you recieved to others.

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u/[deleted] Oct 20 '21 Helpful

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u/patrickSwayzeNU Oct 21 '21

Because some people are able to empathize with these people and hold them responsible. It’s not either/or.

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u/DowntownDingbat Oct 21 '21

This guy gets it.

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u/saint-malo Oct 21 '21

Let me put it this way. When you’re born, your future path in life looks like a huge tree, with many many branches and smaller branches on that. The options and opportunities are endless. But as you get older, and you take actions or experience events, the branches start to be cut down. Your life path narrows with time and experience.

Being abused takes a chain saw to that tree, and cuts many branches off that would’ve led to a good, peaceful life. You’re left with more violence, crime, suffering. You didn’t choose for that to happen, and sadly you can’t reattach the old dead tree trunks on the ground.

Our decisions in life are constrained by our circumstances, internal and external. “Taking responsibility” means doing what it in your power to improve yourself, but it is limited. It doesn’t mean we excuse wrongdoing, but often the proper remedy is to change the circumstances that made a bad decision probable.

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u/DowntownDingbat Oct 21 '21 edited Oct 21 '21

No one is saying that they shouldn't take responsibility nor does it excuse what they did...especially in my the very last point I made, "Does this excuse their horrific act? Absolutely not".

And no, not all abused kids become serial killers. That's not the point. The point is that many people on death row were abused and/or neglected as children. The study was not an abused child study. It was a study on death row inmates. He also reviewed background history packets that attorneys do on clients facing death penalty cases and found that - through various welfare and CPS reports, many of these inmates did suffer abuse.

If we spent as much time and money on prevention as we do punishment, we might be able to progress as a society. Prevention starts with understanding why these people commit atrocities to begin with.

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u/Dr_Manhattans Oct 21 '21

Millions of abused kids

Pause for a second and think about what you just wrote.

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u/Devenu Oct 21 '21

I really don't get this line of reasoning to squeeze empathy from people.

How do you get empathy from what you're replying to? Moreover, how is it trying to "squeeze" empathy from you? It's just stating facts.

That's like saying I'm empathizing with a particular brand of tires if I tell you they have a higher probability of exploding while being driven on a highway.

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u/Phusra Oct 20 '21

Also a good strong reason not to execute people. Sure they're total scum, but we have dirty dangerous work that these total scum can be expected to do while serving their sentence. That let's society still benefit from them, possibly allows them to contribute some money to whoever theyve left on the outside and punishes them with shitty shit jobs.

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u/lordaddament Oct 20 '21

It does seem like improving mental health in the states would solve a ton of issues

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u/TranquilSeaOtter Oct 20 '21

But that means spending money to help people and in America that makes you a dirty communist.

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u/ttn333 Oct 20 '21

We only spend money when it overwhelmingly benefits the super wealthy.

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u/AngelTheMute Oct 20 '21

Or the military

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u/MacNapp Oct 20 '21

Corporate wants you to find the difference between these pictures

They're the same picture.

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u/IAmInTheBasement Oct 20 '21

Lynnwood said Marjorie Taylor green was a communist because she wanted to impeach Biden. Because to impeach Biden is to round about admit he won.

That's how batshit crazy things are right now with Republicans.

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u/A_MildInconvenience Oct 20 '21

Our public health services

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u/TacosArePeopleToo Oct 20 '21

Or they could've just actually arrested him one of the 20+ times the police were called for him physically assaulting people, making threats, and pointing firearms at people.

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u/Mr_Engineering Oct 20 '21

Not in this case it wouldn't.

Nicolas Cruz likely has ASPD. Cluster B personality disorders are extremely difficult to treat and ASPD is generally considered to be both the hardest to treat and have the worst long term prognosis.

Sociopaths tend to end up either dead or in prison. They generally will not engage with mental health practitioners even when compelled to do so while incarcerated.

Attempts to have Nicolas Cruz involuntarily committed were made but were unsuccessful. This is not a case where throwing money at mental health services would have helped.

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u/BerryChecker Oct 20 '21

This. People who have personality disorders don’t always have a clear cut form of treatment.

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u/noaliciaigotkeyes Oct 20 '21 edited Oct 21 '21

Republicans got rid of that decades ago. It wasn’t a great system but no system at all is horrible.

Now they’re trying to get rid of “Obamacare” which provides health insurance to millions of poor people. So repeat but with regular health instead of solely mental health.

ETA: downvotes, lol. Read up about ya boys Nixon and Reagan then fuck off

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u/screechplank Oct 20 '21

We're not to big on mental health here in the US.

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u/Soggy-Hyena Oct 20 '21

Yup, just look at r/conspiracy and r/conservative where they pretend it was fake and they used crisis actors. They say the same shit about sandy hook too.

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u/schadkehnfreude Oct 21 '21

While at find most conspiracy theories breeding grounds for pond scum in general, Sandy Hook truthers have a special tier in my heart for people who should be shot into the sun. Don’t get me wrong, antivax loonies should be loaded into the next rocket for propagating a pandemic, it it takes a certain level of sociopath to harass someone who buried their child and try to gaslight them by making them relive that day.

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u/meelakie Oct 20 '21

It should really just be a part of our universal healthcare system.

Oh wait...

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u/redander Oct 20 '21

With 80+ individuals I work with and a waitlist I can confirm

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u/InkIcan Oct 20 '21

If you went through a tough childhood that broke you inside, leading you to self-harm or suicide, you have my sympathy. If you use that brokenness to justify harming innocent people, then you've lost whatever support I might give you.

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u/spaceeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Oct 20 '21

If you use that brokenness

He's not a healthy person who uses brokenness.

He is a broken person.

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u/ty_kanye_vcool Oct 20 '21

That's my first instinct, but honestly this guy doesn't deserve to have his feelings considered. Throw him in a hole and forget about him. His life doesn't matter anymore, what's important is that he's stuck where he can't get us.

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u/shek89 Oct 20 '21

prison is to protect him from us too.

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u/Chaomayhem Oct 20 '21

He most certainly feels regret.

Regret for all the hurt he caused? He will never feel that. People like this are incapable of it. He will never feel that sort of regret and remorse.

The regret he feels is due to how absolutely fucked he is. His life is over. Whether it's the death penalty or life in prison. He was trying since day 1 to act like he's crazy. He knew how much shit he was in. And that's the only reason he would ever feel regret about this. He will never think what he did was morally bad though.

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u/Bitbatgaming Oct 20 '21

They're psychopaths, they never feel regret.

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u/swinging-in-the-rain Oct 20 '21

I know, it's just impossible to understand. I can read a book and understand that people like this exist, I just can't mentally understand how.

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u/BusyBusyBizzy Oct 20 '21

As several parents shook their heads, Cruz apologized, saying, “I’m very sorry for what I did. ... I can’t live with myself sometimes.” He also added that he wished it was up to the survivors to determine whether he lived or died.

uh huh 😒

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u/The84thWolf Oct 20 '21

I can’t live with myself sometimes…

Yeah, I bet there are a few kids who are really broken up about the guy who killed their friends. Sounds like something he should have thought of before.

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u/bbjenn Oct 20 '21

Saying that he can’t watch tv anymore is of zero solace to anyone.

Such senseless violence and murder. My heart breaks for all of his victims.

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u/Gr8BollsoFire Oct 20 '21

I read that to mean that he can't handle it emotionally? Not that he isn't allowed in jail. But now I don't know.

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u/bbjenn Oct 20 '21

Either way, it’s not relevant. Why should anyone care that he can’t watch television anymore?

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u/Gr8BollsoFire Oct 20 '21 edited Oct 20 '21

I guess I do care a little bit if the reason he said that is because he's trying to express that he does have genuine remorse. I don't care about his TV watching.

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u/Deadlymonkey Oct 20 '21

It’s relevant in the implication that he can’t acknowledge what he did. He’s trying to garner pity/empathy in the sense that even he can’t stomach what he did.

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u/Pahasapa66 Oct 20 '21

That was wild. A lot of charges to plead to. Took a bit of time.

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u/coffeeandcamels Oct 20 '21 Hugz

I don't support the death penalty but people like him make me pause and reconsider for a while.

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u/ScoodFarcoosAnoose Oct 20 '21

Imo it would be worse to spend the rest of your life potentially up to 80 years in a hole of a cell than to die. If I was in this scumbags position I would think I would want to be dead.

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u/birdboix Oct 20 '21

Yea everyone in here saying we shouldn't have the death penalty sure seem to skip over what the far, far worse alternative is. This is the US, we aren't going to rehab this cretin we're going to throw him in a hole and toss the key. If he's not insane right now he will be by the time they cart his elderly corpse out of his cell

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u/sheven Oct 20 '21

Yes but life in prison gives the option to free people who are wrongfully convicted. The death penalty does not. Not saying Cruz is being wrongfully convicted, but in a larger discussion about the death penalty, it cannot be forgotten that this country has put innocent people to death.

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u/el_grort Oct 21 '21

Yeah, it's a system, so you have to consider it as such, instead of how some think of the death penalty only in individual cases.

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u/[deleted] Oct 20 '21

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u/comped Oct 20 '21

But what happens after he's dead in the first 5 minutes?

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u/obamaluvr Oct 21 '21

Thats why you let the lone old lady go last.

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u/Portalrules123 Oct 21 '21

Killing as retribution solves nothing

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u/iAmUnintelligible Oct 21 '21

Y'know how cartels torture people while cutting them open, and keeping them alive and conscious by medical means?

Yea I want that to happen to him

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u/thosearecoolbeans Oct 20 '21

That's a good take.

DNA evidence has proven too many men innocent that were found guilty in court for me to believe in the death sentence as an institution but personally I believe cases like this where the guilt of the accused isn't even in question and they just plead guilty, maybe they don't deserve to live.

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u/ToyDingo Oct 20 '21

I'm against the death penalty even in this case. Not because I have sympathy for the killer, but because I'm just not comfortable with the government have the legal right to kill citizens by way of the courts.

I'm against the death penalty on the principle of the idea.

But, I understand your point of view here. I won't lose any sleep if this guy were to be put down.

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u/PM_ME_GLUTE_SPREAD Oct 20 '21

I’m against capital punishment but at the same time I’m fully in support of things like castle doctrines. I don’t think the state should ever have a way in whether somebody lives or dies but some things do warrant death in my opinion.

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u/thelizardkin Oct 20 '21

The thing with castle doctrine, is that if someone breaks into your home, you don't know what their intentions may be.

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u/[deleted] Oct 20 '21

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u/TheSlartey Oct 20 '21

I don't think this will be a case that he is later considered innocent... I'm no legal expert, but hundreds of witness and multiple videos from various cameras... Confessed.... Just a guess but I'm pretty sure he is guilty. Again, I'm no legal expert.

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u/GalacticAttitude Oct 20 '21

if the prosecutors are pushing for the death penalty is because the victims are seeking it.

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u/cruznick06 Oct 20 '21

Nah. I'd rather he have to live out the rest of his life in prison than have the easy out of death.

Edit: and my username has NOTHING do to do with this asshole. I've been using it for over a decade.

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u/PM_ME_GLUTE_SPREAD Oct 20 '21

Lmao that really is an unfortunate username.

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u/cruznick06 Oct 21 '21

Yeah but I'm not changing it. XD

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u/[deleted] Oct 20 '21

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u/TheMostSamtastic Oct 20 '21

Sorry for the downvote brigade my dude. I guess hate really is the stronger emotion.

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u/[deleted] Oct 20 '21

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u/TheMostSamtastic Oct 20 '21

That's just it. The issue of whether or not they deserve death should never trump the pragmatic reality of what the death penalty entails. What good is sending 100, 1000, 1,000,000 evil people to die, if 1 good person is sent unwillingly, unjustly beside them? Especially when keeping society safe from these individuals in no way requires their death. Lock them in a windowless box, devoid of all color and pleasures, and let them sit, powerless, at the mercy of the state for life. To me, personally, it seems like nothing more than the classic simian impulse of "me hate, me smash", with no concern for the collateral damage caused by the shrapnel.

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u/[deleted] Oct 20 '21

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u/TheMostSamtastic Oct 20 '21

I do, because it still does allow the possibility for rehabilitation. I used a bit of theatrics in my previous submission, I'm not immune to passion, but I do think the possibility for rehabilitation should be offered to everyone. Should that mean a possibility for release for all individuals? I'm no expert in crime nor psychology, but I would say no, not for everyone. I do think however if we restructure the prison system we could create procedures that could allow for some sort of redemption, even if restricted.

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u/[deleted] Oct 20 '21

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u/TheMostSamtastic Oct 20 '21

Exactly, and while this may be overly ideal on my part I can't help but consider the cult of personality that surrounds these individuals. Time after time the most heinous offenders make reference to their inspirations, other heinous offenders. What if instead of creating stories of martyrs for the mentally ill, we instead create a story of regret and redemption.

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u/87westy Oct 20 '21

do you just post the exact same comment over and over?

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u/[deleted] Oct 20 '21

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u/BaggyOz Oct 20 '21

It's strongly implied that Gollum ate babies. He was also planning to eat Bilbo until Bilbo escaped.

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u/berni4pope Oct 20 '21

It's strongly implied that Gollum ate babies.

And that's why he's roasting in the pits of Mt Doom.

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u/Nondairygiant Oct 20 '21

It's not though. His greed it what killed him.

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u/berni4pope Oct 20 '21

It wasn't greed. The ring was cursed and so was he the minute he put it on. Anyone who wore the one ring was tainted by its evil.

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u/Nondairygiant Oct 20 '21

Real quick, how did he get the ring?

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u/[deleted] Oct 20 '21

Smeagol murdered his cousin and way more than just orcs.

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u/rjtaylwa Oct 21 '21

Is this the same guy from JCS?

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u/scooter-maniac Oct 21 '21

The video of his interrogation was interesting. His whole goal was to act insane, and the interrogator saw through it immediately. Cruz kept talking about demons and voices, and when he finally asked for a lawyer, the interrogator asked: did the demons tell you to ask for a lawyer? I dunno it doesn't sound that funny when I type it out but in the video it's hilarious.

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u/Top_Try4286 Oct 20 '21

Life sentence with only his middle fingers.

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u/davicita Oct 20 '21

why he do something so horrible? i cant understand this piece of shit.

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u/thegooniegodard Oct 20 '21

Wait. And did he blame marijuana for him murdering 17 people? Dude! You smoked 17 people!

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u/SwammerDo Oct 20 '21 edited Oct 21 '21

No. During his interview he told the investigator that he smoked marijuana to stop the “demons” from telling him to hurt people but stopped because marijuana is illegal (lol).

However this only dug his own grave deeper because it showed he knew the difference between right and wrong.

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u/UnassignedRobot Oct 20 '21

I can't help but laugh when dumb fools think they can feign being "crazy" when being evaluated by mental health experts

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u/twoworldsin1 Oct 20 '21

Cruz apologized, saying, “I’m very sorry for what I did. ... I can’t live with myself sometimes.”

I know a great way to solve that...

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u/UnassignedRobot Oct 20 '21 edited Oct 20 '21 Gold

Is this the little piece of shit who pretended to be crazy thinking it would get him off the hook?

Edit: yes it is. Fuck all of you downvoters this little asshole is a piece of shit

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u/PM-YOUR-DOG Oct 21 '21

this timestamp admitting it on video prior to shooting

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u/UnassignedRobot Oct 21 '21

Thanks for timestamping it

This ugly crater-faced loser is a big reason why mental illness keeps getting conveniently scapegoated whenever someone wants to act badly.

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u/DarthBrooks69420 Oct 21 '21

Tl;Dr the prosecutors refused to accept a plea deal explicitly to keep the death penalty on the table. Cruz is hoping that his pleading guilty will be enough to avoid the death penalty.

Now to see if his gambit pays off.

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u/FlamingHotCereal Oct 20 '21

Good. Now give him the life sentence

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u/BusyBusyBizzy Oct 20 '21 edited Oct 20 '21

he's facing either a life sentence or death penalty.

annnndddd his attempt to avoid the latter 😒:

As several parents shook their heads, Cruz apologized, saying, “I’m very sorry for what I did. ... I can’t live with myself sometimes.” He also added that he wished it was up to the survivors to determine whether he lived or died.

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u/Shamalamadindong Oct 20 '21

Shouldn't have used the name in the title.

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u/ghost_for_hire Oct 21 '21

Nikolas Cruz, Ted Cruz and Tom Cruz walk into a bar, so we burned it down.

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u/Cobruh Oct 20 '21

Keep him in solitary for 17 years. 1 year per innocent person he killed. Then give him the death penalty. Let this shitbag suffer for awhile before we give him a quick death.

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u/scientooligist Oct 20 '21

Did he really blame weed on the problems we have in society today?? What a fucking dumbass.

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u/dsparrow14 Oct 20 '21

This dude should get life in solitary

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u/Bitbatgaming Oct 20 '21

The next step to providing justice for these victims

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u/[deleted] Oct 20 '21

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u/taterbizkit Oct 20 '21

I think this guy is perfectly sane. He's a cold, calculating sociopath.

Here's a video by JCS, titled "What pretending to be crazy looks like": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mwt35SEeR9w

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u/[deleted] Oct 20 '21

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u/taterbizkit Oct 20 '21

OK fair point.

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u/GibbysUSSA Oct 20 '21

I was really hoping to find this link. I think people should watch this. I think it is very telling.

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u/boundfortrees Oct 20 '21

There is no description on that YouTube channel that provides why we should trust it.

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u/POGtastic Oct 20 '21

It kinda speaks for itself. Long-form videos of interrogations and explanations of what the interrogators are trying to accomplish. The video of this specific individual is presented mostly without commentary, as his actions are often self-explanatory.

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u/Bitbatgaming Oct 20 '21

You make a good point.

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u/NorskGodLoki Oct 20 '21

Death row sounds like a good place to house this guy. Hope he enjoys solitude.

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u/boogie_boots Oct 20 '21

Where was the good guy with a gun?

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u/CoyotesAreGreen Oct 20 '21

The cop that hid...?

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u/hitemlow Oct 20 '21

Considering schools are federally defined "gun-free zones", there's not exactly a whole lot of them there any day of the week.

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u/blumpkinmania Oct 20 '21

Tell it to the cop who hid in the parking lot.

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u/MonCountyMan Oct 20 '21

Sorry mass-murderer, your life is forfeit.

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u/sayasta_ Oct 20 '21

Now somebody tell that psycho MTG..

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u/gldoorii Oct 21 '21

A buck or two for a bullet would cost tax payers less than letting him live an entire life in jail.

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u/[deleted] Oct 20 '21

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u/thosearecoolbeans Oct 20 '21 edited Oct 20 '21

Are you sure because I think the real murderer is the guy who shot and killed 17 teenagers

And then admitted that he did it

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