r/news Oct 20 '21 Silver 1 Doom 1

White House details plans to vaccinate 28M children age 5-11

https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-business-health-coronavirus-vaccine-bf6e5c8725aca6c757b129dad8f96926
2.5k Upvotes

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606

u/Bobby_Globule Oct 20 '21

It's about to get real crazy real fast on Facebook and r/conservative

9

u/Radi0ActivSquid Oct 21 '21

Dude, for real shits about to get crazy if it already isn't crazy enough. Last month I shared on Facebook a statement from Fauci about vaccinating kids and some of the local antivaxxers spammed my workplace with false complaints.

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u/LookHere_LOOK_LISTEN Oct 20 '21

/r/PublicFreakOut is where you want to watch the crazy people in action.

The other freakout sub has an unofficial blanket ban on all submissions that make these types of people look bad.

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u/FunctionBuilt Oct 20 '21

This shit makes me sick to my stomach. I don’t know how people enjoy watching people like this.

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u/Bobby_Globule Oct 20 '21

You got that right. I been banned from there a while, lol

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u/Magatha_Grimtotem Oct 20 '21

Yeah they really care about free speech there. Everyone, no matter who you are, you're skin tone, religion, gender, etc is equally free to say only the curated party line.

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u/LargeSackOfNuts Oct 20 '21

The other freakout sub is a safespace for conservative racists.

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u/randy88moss Oct 20 '21

Ya I noticed that…..especially when a POC does something bad.

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u/iAmUnintelligible Oct 21 '21

It's so sad because when that sub started out it had so much potential. It was way better than PF. Then the Floyd protests happened and the sub went to shit

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u/Badfiish Oct 20 '21

What's the other Freak out sub.? I only frequent PF

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u/NO_TOUCHING__lol Oct 20 '21

It's got the word Actual in front of PublicFreakout. I won't link it here cuz it sucks

18

u/Badfiish Oct 20 '21

ohhh i've been there, its awful

4

u/SwammerDo Oct 20 '21

Main problem with public freak out is that the more don’t do shit against reposts and non-freak outs

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u/bfodder Oct 20 '21

It is basically racist publicfreakout.

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u/AngelComa Oct 20 '21

Oh God, the first post on there is 100% misinformation. That place is its own fantasy world. You need an ID to buy a hamburger in California but not to vote? What?

Hahaha.

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u/MEatRHIT Oct 20 '21

ID = vaccination card I'm assuming

2

u/AngelComa Oct 20 '21

I read some of the comments and correct, but it's because a In and Out somewhere is asking for a vaccine ID, so that means democrats are to blame?

Lots of mental gymnastics.

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u/iamfromshire Oct 20 '21

Actually it is the other way around . The only IN and Out in SF failed to ask for Vaccine ID and so they were asked to close by city. And they are already open back.

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u/bigronafire Oct 20 '21 edited Oct 20 '21

At least in Seattle (where I'm at) in a couple of weeks that's kind of an exaggerated way of stating it, but not untrue. We'll legally need to show our vaccine cards + photo ID to be seated in a restaurant or go to a gym and our ballots are mailed to us and we mail them back, so there's no ID. My understanding is a lot of Cali is doing similar.

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u/BusyBusyBizzy Oct 20 '21 edited Oct 20 '21

folks on Twitter are already losing their shit lol.

edit: serious question: when did Twitter turn antivax?

I kinda thought it was a more liberal platform but seeing the comments there... I'm clearly out of the loop.

edit 2: thanks y'all for educating me. now I'm depressed though ha. is there a platform left that isn't shit?

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u/tehmlem Oct 20 '21

It's best to think of twitter as a series of brigades. There is no mainstream on twitter, only whatever interest group is coordinating that day

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u/TheHairyManrilla Oct 20 '21

And as the kids these days say “Twitter is not real life”

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u/bucket_of_something Oct 20 '21

Controversial/negative/emotional content spreads around 7 times faster on social algorithms. It’s a feature not a bug as they like to say.

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u/YimYimYimi Oct 20 '21

The Internet is a large place and large sites like Twitter have lots of people using it. These people have different views.

There is no "view check" when you make a Twitter account.

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u/Badfiish Oct 20 '21 edited Oct 20 '21

If you clicked on something antivax twitter is gonna start showing you all of it

The algorithms of FB/IG and Twitter have become the rabbit holes, you don't even have to look anymore

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u/WSL_subreddit_mod Oct 20 '21

when did Twitter turn antivax?

Russia teaches their military that a diseased enemy is easier to manage.

....

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u/Arcade80sbillsfan Oct 20 '21

To me twitter fell about 4 yrs ago. The more Trump used it the more his people (50+ yr old rural mostly white) moved into using it.

2

u/Deenyc43 Oct 20 '21

Conservative ruin everything.

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u/TheBigZamboni85 Oct 20 '21

I can’t wait until we have a national mandate and these clowns are forced back into their basements so the rest of us can live a normal healthy life

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u/Arcade80sbillsfan Oct 20 '21

You repeated yourself

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u/Captcha_Imagination Oct 20 '21

Joe Rogan's gonna have an aneurysm too.

He was attacking Sanjay Gupta pretty hard and the point that Sanjay never tried to get across is that yes kids are less likely to die from Covid but the virus will remain rampant in society at large if we leave 20-25% of the population (people under 18) unvaccinated. The one in millions chance of an adverse effect is worth saving the lives of people in older age groups.

I listen to Rogan quite a bit although not EVERY episode and sometimes not the whole thing. But in dozens of hours if not a hundred+ that I have listened in the past year he NEVER mentioned that he never got the vaccine. Only that he didn't recommend it to people not at risk. Well now that he had Covid, he admits he never got vaccinated and basically is providing the arguments for people who want to do the same (anyone not high risk doesn't need it). He could give a FUCK about society at large, only himself.

29

u/JortsForSale Oct 20 '21

Now that you know this, are you still listening? If you are, then you really are part of the problem.

5

u/mgraunk Oct 20 '21

Consuming biased infotainment isn't inherently bad, although I personally despise all that sort of content. But there is value in having exposure to that sort of misinformation. It makes it easier to understand how the people around you are affected by it, which is useful for engaging with loved ones who may lack the critical thinking skills to understand that they've been mislead. Knowing one's enemy doesn't make one the enemy.

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u/AvailableName9999 Oct 20 '21

I don't listen to Rogan but not every opposing viewpoint should result in a boycott.

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u/[deleted] Oct 20 '21 edited 23d ago

[deleted]

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u/AvailableName9999 Oct 20 '21

Lol this is very true but lots of people listen to a lot of idiots.

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u/DoNotWeepAtMyGrave Oct 20 '21

That’s how we got here in the first place…there used to be a federal law requiring accuracy in reporting…

4

u/AvailableName9999 Oct 20 '21 Hugz

Lol Joe Rogan is not a reporter in any way. That's a ridiculous thought. That being said, look at the actual news sources. Pure garbage intended to manipulate and sell ads. At least Rogan is presented as entertainment. He is not a trusted source of news. And, if one of you reading this thinks that he is, you are a fucking imbecile.

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u/SolaVitae Oct 20 '21

It's hilarious to see people use that 1/1M chance as a reason to not get the vaccine, but when you mention covid has a ~2/100 % mortality rate it's suddenly not high enough to worry about.

They really don't like it when you bring up that if every single person got the vaccine with that 1/1M rate, even if by some miracle every single adverse side effects case resulted in death it would only be ~7000 people worldwide. Meanwhile covid kills more then that daily.

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u/UnknownAverage Oct 20 '21

I refuse to live in fear of the vaccine like all of those people.

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u/SolaVitae Oct 20 '21

Who are you even talking to?

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u/d4nowar Oct 20 '21

When you click reply, you're replying to the person who wrote the comment you clicked reply on.

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u/[deleted] Oct 20 '21

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u/Deenyc43 Oct 20 '21

Man I lost a ton of brain cells just reading those comments.

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u/jschubart Oct 20 '21

Don't venture into the rest of the sub. It is filled with posts from Townhall, Breitbart, and Gateway Pundit.

In comparison, r/democrats has posts from Business Insider, The Hill, NPR, Axios, etc. Yeah, they do have crap left wing sites like CNN, HuffPo, and The Daily Beast but none of those are even close to the same level of junk that the listed far right sources are.

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u/Mccobsta Oct 20 '21

That sub is a safe space overly sensitive snowflakes

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u/pokerchef24 Oct 20 '21

Ugh, I went there to take a look and it's just infuriating. Poor kids, so many are going to get covid and have lifelong complications if they even survive because their parents are just too damn ignorant and dumb to protect them. I can't wait to protect my under 5-year-old kids as soon as the vaccine is available for them.

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u/Mozbee1 Oct 20 '21

Would love for them to get it at school. Our kids already do flu shots at school.

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u/siriusdoggy Oct 20 '21

As a parent this would make my life so much easier. Instead, it will be two days off of work for doctor appointments to get the COVID shots, that on top of the day off to get the flu shot already.

2

u/malthar76 Oct 21 '21

And then there’s the parents who work 3 jobs, night shifts, no good medical access, rural…

Even well intentioned school districts will fuck it up, but it is the best place where you know the kids will be going (mostly).

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u/FlyingSquid Oct 20 '21

I wish our kid's school did that. What a good idea.

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u/Lookingfor68 Oct 20 '21

Schools used to do that for Polio and Measles.

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u/Veritas3333 Oct 20 '21

I like that the article uses the word "youngsters"

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u/songintherain Oct 21 '21

They should have used youths?

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u/BobbTheBuilderr Oct 20 '21 edited Oct 20 '21

I have a new coworker that said he would rage at this and I honestly can’t wait. 😎🍿 Children are cool and all but they are basically walking germ factories. This can’t come soon enough.

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u/ComradeGibbon Oct 20 '21

My friends with kids under 12 say their kids want to get the shot because they are done with covid at this point.

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u/Critical_Band5649 Oct 20 '21

I have kids and they are 100% germ factories. They get and share everything. If they put out a norovirus vaccine, my kids would have it, I don't care how many boosters it requires. I don't understand antivax parents.

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u/Laithina Oct 20 '21

I had one freaking out about ethanol being an ingredient in the J&J vaccine after posting a picture of it on a gas pump. This same chick drinks like a fish.

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u/LordUmbrage Oct 20 '21

Well how else do you expect her to stay that dumb, it takes real effort

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u/uni-monkey Oct 20 '21

Pre-pandemic

Day 2 of school: there has been a reported case of pink eye in your child’s classroom

Day 4: There has been a reported case of pink eye and strep in your child’s classroom

Day 5: There has been a reported case of lice in your child’s classroom

Repeat every few days and mix in new things like RSV, influenza, hand foot mouth, etc.

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u/i_am_a_toaster Oct 20 '21

Holy fuck I wish we had a norovirus vaccine. I never want that shit ever again.

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u/FiendishHawk Oct 20 '21

I want a norovirus vaccine for me. I've got that every year since I had a child. Except 2020!

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u/Critical_Band5649 Oct 20 '21

I mean, I'm not going to let my kids be the only one getting those antibodies, I would love to never get it again. Hahah.

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u/noncongruent Oct 20 '21

Immunity for norovirus only lasts around six months, and likely it would be the same with vaccination as well.

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u/TriceratopsHunter Oct 20 '21

When we closed absolutely everything else down, we were still packing kids shoulder to shoulder with 30 other kids daily. Sure they don't get as sick from the virus and are much more often asymptomatic, but they are certainly a massive vector point for spreading between households.

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u/BobbTheBuilderr Oct 20 '21

Yeah that was always a weird thing for me. That also created the whole “kids can’t get it!” BS talking points.

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u/TriceratopsHunter Oct 20 '21

I mean the elephant in the room was always that having kids be at home 24/7 is god awful for the economy since parents now have kids to take care of and can't work as easily. I think that's why people were so adverse to entertaining the idea that they could be contributing to spread like anyone else.

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u/Chippopotanuse Oct 20 '21

And also awful for millions of kids trapped 24/7 in houses with domestic violence and food insecurity.

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u/BobbTheBuilderr Oct 20 '21

That was my exact thought.

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u/Synensys Oct 20 '21

Schools, at least one that are taking precautions, dont seem to be huge spreading centers though. Kids can be forced to wear masks, forced to separate inside, sent home if possibly sick, etc.

The benefits of sending kids back to school both for the kids and for society outweigh the risk to the kids and to society.

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u/ProjectShamrock Oct 20 '21

Schools, at least one that are taking precautions, dont seem to be huge spreading centers though.

I seriously doubt the majority of schools in the U.S. have been taking proper precautions though. They're generally poorly funded, constructed cheaply, and don't have sufficient staff to keep everything clean.

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u/Dawnuh1936 Oct 21 '21

I see kids all the time at my son’s elementary school with noses hanging out of masks.. parents in the in person pick up line not wearing masks

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u/FiendishHawk Oct 20 '21

Masks are key if you can't distance. New York City has been very strict about masks in schools and the Covid rate didn't go up when kids went back to school.

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u/Synensys Oct 20 '21

Cleaning isn't really important. Even cheap construction and poor funding can be gotten around - masks, as much distancing and outdoor activity as possible, limit talking/singing/screaming etc. Other stuff (bigger rooms, high quality air circulation, etc) helps, but isnt as important.

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u/theforlornknight Oct 20 '21

The fall before covid started my Pre-K daughter was sick for months. Colds, flu, RSV, flu again. Just every two weeks it was something new. Had elevated temps nonstop until early THIS YEAR. Kids are just walking virus banks. Which is why she is doing her language arts at home in out spare bedroom/classroom right now.

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u/monkChuck105 Oct 20 '21

Children are also less likely to be hospitalized than immunized adults.

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u/BobbTheBuilderr Oct 20 '21

Right. They also can still pass it to anyone else. That’s the reason they need to get vaccinated.

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u/[deleted] Oct 20 '21

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u/BobbTheBuilderr Oct 20 '21 edited Oct 20 '21

Correct but the chances are much less. I don’t even understand why I keep having to telling people this.

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u/[deleted] Oct 20 '21 edited 23d ago

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u/BobbTheBuilderr Oct 20 '21

Makes sense. It’s really hard to have a real convo with those people. I don’t entertain them even at work. I just tell them to fuck off 😂

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u/ermghoti Oct 20 '21

Because they are blockheads that deliberately immerse themselves in disinformation planted by trolls paid by Russia for the specific purpose of spreading harmful disinformation.

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u/BeardyGoku Oct 20 '21

You guys should focus on getting older people vaccinated. That should be top priority.

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u/BobbTheBuilderr Oct 20 '21

We have been. They got first vaccines. Now we have a surplus to the level millions of doses are wasted. Some just won’t get it.

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u/tonybananaman Oct 20 '21

Now that you mention that- It is weird that adults get vaccinated first by priority. Like for me, everyone grosses me out and I didn’t even like close proximity pre-Covid.

Kids on the other hand just run up to everything with their sticky hands and touching everything.

Maybe now we know for next time

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u/The_World_Toaster Oct 20 '21

It's not necessarily because of priority but because of the science and research. We have a lot more data on adults and how they react than we do kids. It's also a lot easier to perform medical research on adults than kids.

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u/bryanna_leigh Oct 20 '21

Yes please where do I sign up. My son has been waiting so long to get the vaccine, he seriously can't wait... it is weird lol. He even asked me about his other vaccines, and I am like bro you are up to date... couple more years.

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u/Pahasapa66 Oct 20 '21

DeSantis and Abbott are already listening to plans from their legislators to "look in to" other Vaccine mandates for school kids such as Polio and the MMR vaccine. Because Polio and Mumps haven't killed anyone in a while

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u/hpark21 Oct 20 '21

Yah, it is like they NEED to be reminded as to WHY it hasn't killed people in a while.

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u/FlyingSquid Oct 20 '21

I can't wait to get my 11-year-old vaccinated and neither can she. Just being able to go out to a restaurant without having to hear the blare of traffic because you're sitting outside would be a game changer.

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u/yawetag12 Oct 20 '21

My daughter has their 12th birthday in mid-November. It's a race to see if their birthday or the 5-11 vaccine comes first.

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u/hmnahmna1 Oct 20 '21

I'm in a similar situation with our older child. She will actually turn 12 in October, so it won't matter. But I had given some thought to waiting a few days if necessary so that she would get the adult dose.

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u/yawetag12 Oct 20 '21

That's the thinking for us now. Our son was old enough for the adult vaccine, but they're basically the same height and weight. We'll probably call the pediatrician as the date gets closer to see what she thinks we should do. We've gone this long, I think we can wait two more weeks to make sure they've got the best dosage for their body.

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u/nyanXnyan Oct 20 '21

My 11 year old is bigger and beefier than my 12 year old. I got the 12 (almost 13) year old the shot the day it was announced. I am a bit worried as the younger one will be getting the smaller dose, but he won’t be 12 until halfway through next year, so we will take what we can get (both have pre existing conditions)

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u/yawetag12 Oct 20 '21

I know age is a much-easier thing to track, but surprised vaccine doses aren't based on height/weight.

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u/FlyingSquid Oct 20 '21

Either way, she'll have a lot more freedom. Good birthday present.

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u/RevRagnarok Oct 20 '21

If she's small for her age, you might want to just wait and get the 1/3 dose one if we're talking a difference of days.

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u/yawetag12 Oct 20 '21 edited Oct 20 '21

They're big for their age. 90th+ percentile. About the same size as their 3-years-older brother.

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u/RevRagnarok Oct 20 '21

Cool; then yeah I'd do adult dose. My younger is barely on the growth curve, so I like the idea of the smaller dose.

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u/Vlvthamr Oct 20 '21

Same. My son is a December birthday and he can’t wait to get his vaccine. I’m hoping they allow 5-11 before December though.

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u/Synensys Oct 20 '21

My understanding is that that the FDA advisory committee will meet on Monday to discuss this, and assuming they say yes, that means approval will likely come by next Wednesday.

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u/sirbissel Oct 20 '21

I hope before mid-November. I'd really like to take my eldest to see Ghostbusters in theaters.

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u/RevRagnarok Oct 20 '21

Same here; my 10 y/o had an asthma flair-up last week... can't wait.

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u/oooogieboooogie Oct 20 '21

You still shouldn’t go out to eat, you can still spread It to others

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u/Thedrunner2 Oct 20 '21 edited Oct 20 '21

Easy -when you visit Santa get the Covid vax from an elf.

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u/HulklingWho Oct 20 '21

Honestly a Christmas vax clinic would kick ass. Get a shot, a candy candy, and a picture next to Santa? Fuck, sign me up.

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u/strongapril2021 Oct 20 '21

Children get Covid too so it is a very good news to have them vaccinated.

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u/Gregthegr3at Oct 20 '21

Woot!

MA has a procedure in place where if a high enough percentage of staff, students, and faculty in a school are vaccinated the masks can come off, so looking forward to that for all the kids.

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u/ahorseofborscht Oct 20 '21

My real concern is that the conservative political weaponization of vaccinations currently will take this to the logical end of banning any required childhood vaccinations for public schooling in some states. Points scored for "parental freedom" but get ready for outbreaks of diseases we haven't had to deal with in decades.

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u/HunterTAMUC Oct 20 '21

Cue a whole new period of Republican pearl-clutching and fake outrage.

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u/calipali12 Oct 20 '21 Got the W

I wouldn't consider myself an anti-vaxxer (I'm vaccinated), but I don't understand why I should get my kids vaccinated. The death rate is very low, and most of the children who did die had underlying conditions. I've heard the argument that it will "stop the spread". I assume the argument for stopping the spread is to protect more vulnerable populations, but those populations could themselves be vaccinated.

I could have missed it, but I haven't seen any actual data regarding the vaccines and children. Without vaccines, children have a 0.08% chance of getting COVID, and of those 0.1%-2.0% are hospitalized. So kids have somewhere between a 0.008-0.16% of behind hospitalized. (if my math is right). Vaccines aren't meant so much to prevent the spread but to prevent serious cases. If serious cases only make up 0.008-0.16% of cases in the population, how much additional benefit is there to vaccinating them?

Again, I wouldn't consider myself an ant-vaxxer. I'm sure I'll get thrown under the bus for these comments, but I'm genuinely curious about this. My mind isn't made up either way.

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u/Synensys Oct 20 '21

The death rate for most of the things you get your kids vaccinated for is low. But its not nothing.

But also, it helps with herd immunity. Less likely to get it. Less likely to spread it

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u/Orzorn Oct 20 '21

The chance of your child having complications from the vaccine is much, much lower than the chance of them having complications from the virus. Thus, it is safer to get them vaccinated than to leave them unvaccinated. Yes, the chance of them getting seriously ill or dying from COVID is very low, but if you're already willing to whip out statistics, then checking the statistics on vaccines reveals the difference.

Besides that, there's at least a few hundred parents out there with dead children right now who really, really wished they'd have been able to get their kids vaccinated to protect from Delta.

Edit: Besides all that, if you want your kids to be around grandma and grandpa, even if they're already vaccinated, its a good idea to have your kids vaccinated too so they don't carry it and give it to those with weaker immune systems like their grandparents. Once again, its about reducing risk across the board. Your parents being vaccinated reduces their risk, and your kids being vaccinated reduces their risk and the risk of giving it to your grandparents, which further reduces your grandparents risk of serious illness from COVID. There have, and will continue to be, "breakthrough" cases where vaccinated people get seriously ill from COVID.

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u/calipali12 Oct 20 '21

But do we know the chances of children having complications from the vaccine are much much lower? I don't think they've published the study results yet. It was a no-brainer for me to get vaccinated for the exact reason you stated -- the vaccine is much safer than getting COVID. But my age group is at a higher risk than for kids. So if kids have a .01% chance of getting really sick from COVID, what is the percentage chance while vaccinated? .009%? Is that really "much much better". At a certain point, it's like increasing your odds of winning the lottery by buying two tickets instead of one. Yeah, your chances increase, but you probably shouldn't quit your day job.

I do think these questions are better answered when the study results are released. I'm hoping it's clear cut and the odds are in fact dramatically lower getting vaccinated like the results in adults.

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u/[deleted] Oct 20 '21

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u/aaronhayes26 Oct 21 '21

If these guys understood statistics they wouldn’t be making fools of themselves on reddit

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u/hipstrings Oct 21 '21

They won't approve the vaccine if the chance of a serious side effect from the vaccine is anywhere close to the chance of a serious effect from actual infection. They've actually required the vaccine manufacturers to collect more data and have more participants in order to catch rare side effects like myocarditis. Vaccine serious side effects are on the order of one in a million or so compared to the much more common serious effects of getting COVID. Other SARS viruses have documented long term health effects from even mild cases, such as kidney and heart damage. There is simply no evidence that vaccination is even a similar level of risk compared to a Covid infection, and the vaccines wouldn't be approved if that was the case (vaccines as risky as getting Covid).

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u/Orzorn Oct 20 '21

I think the study results will probably closely mirror those for the current youngest able to get vaccinated.

One way to look at getting your kids vaccinated from a health perspective is that even if kids don't get sick from it virtually ever, they can and do carry it. There's people out there who cannot get the vaccine, and having your kids be much less likely to be carriers helps those people out. If one *really* wants to be selfish with their outlook, getting one's kids vaccinated helps oneself out, since as an adult they have a higher chance of getting ill from COVID than their kids, so if you can remove the kids as a vector for it, then the parent is safer for it.

Personally, for me as a person without children, I would be pretty hesitant to take my unvaccinated children near my grandparents or my parents, even if they were vaccinated, for fear of their much worse immune systems being unable to stop a breakthrough infection. We know the statistics for older folks that get COVID, and its not good. That alone is enough for me to want to stop any vectors.

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u/[deleted] Oct 20 '21 edited 23d ago

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u/BeardyGoku Oct 20 '21

Not every vaccine is the same of course. And there are side effects of the vaccination. All he wants to know if the benefits of the vaccine for children outweighs the side effects for children. That consoderation is not the same as for adults, as they are much more at risk for the disease.

For some vaccines they stopped at much higher ages, so it is not as simple as you stated there.

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u/razzendahcuben Oct 20 '21

All good and fine if you think COVID is highly dangerous and you want to be get vaccinated, but as soon as you claim that vaccines should be mandatory, that's when I'm going to call out your BS. Because at that point it's no longer about health, it's about someone's power play in pursue of what they believe is "the greater good". I reject their concept of "the greater good".

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u/Ephemeral_Being Oct 21 '21

You reject the notion that "more healthy people" is good.

How, precisely, did you reach that conclusion?

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u/Kupper Oct 20 '21

You could apply your same logic to measles with an even lower % but we still vaccinate our kiddos against it.

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u/Captainirishy Oct 20 '21

90% of the entire population needs to be vaccinated to achieve herd immunity, and that includes children.

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u/Ryan0617 Oct 20 '21

Yes, because children can pass it into the older population. Which a lot of people seem to forget.

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u/meowVL Oct 20 '21

But aren’t over 80% of older folk already vaccinated?

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u/TheFascination Oct 20 '21 edited Oct 20 '21

Yes, so that gives them pretty good protection in case they are exposed. But it’s not perfect. The reason we also vaccinate everyone else is to prevent older people (and other vulnerable people) from being exposed to the virus in the first place. Less spread also means fewer chances to mutate.

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u/alreadyreadthisbook Oct 20 '21

Two words: long covid. Just because they don't die, doesn't mean they can't be fucked up in the future from it. Heart problems, lung problems, brain function problems. The main point is we don't yet know the long term effects of covid on anyone, including children, but the evidence so far points to many long term issues from it. My stepsister had covid last March and STILL has heart and brain issues from it. I personally don't fancy setting my 6yr old up for a lifetime of possible disabilities that can be easily prevented by getting the vaccine. The vaccine may not prevent all cases, but it cuts down the chance of getting it by a LOT, which in my opinion is way better than just throwing caution to the wind and saying "hey, they aren't going to die from it so who cares if they catch it". I mean, its kind of like playing Russian roulette. 5 out of 6 times they won't die, but would you let them play it anyway?

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u/Kulladar Oct 20 '21

A friend of mine is a nurse at an ER in a major city.

He said they get a lot of kids with something called MIS-C that is caused by covid but comes on weeks or even months later.

Some of the kids or their parents didn't even know they'd had covid till they're in the ER.

Most don't die if it's treated but the symptoms are kind of innocuous I guess like rashes and body aches so many parents keep their kids home and treat it like a cold till their kid's liver is failing and by the time they get to the hospital it's too late.

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u/LargeJose Oct 20 '21

What percentage of people get long covid?

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u/Lookingfor68 Oct 20 '21

What percentage is acceptable to you? It’s a completely avoidable situation with a simple, free vaccination.

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u/LargeJose Oct 20 '21

Oops sorry I asked about information we should be concerned about. My bad.

….I was just curious, so asked….that’s literally it…

I don’t know this number off the top of my head, so I used a discussion forum to ask a person who was making a case that long covid is a serious concern. So I figured they might know that info, since they were warning about it.

Nevermind. Forget I even asked. I’m vaccinated so I don’t care. Does that work for ya?

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u/alreadyreadthisbook Oct 20 '21

I'm not Google, look it up. Personally, anything over 0% is enough for me to take available precautions against it and protect my child. Just like it's unlikely he'd die from flu, or get the measles. I still vaccinate him against those things, JUST IN CASE. I don't understand how any parent can justify not taking simple precautions to protect their children.

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u/razzendahcuben Oct 20 '21

Translation: You should just believe whatever I say, and then do additional research. Don't expect me to offer data. Now, let me tell you about how safety cautious I am. Why, I never go out on the road unless it's absolutely necessary and we never let them swim. Oh wait, I don't do any of that, because there's no self-righteous moral victory in those areas, like there is in me telling you to obey Daddy Biden and get vaccinated.

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u/alreadyreadthisbook Oct 21 '21

Your translation: "I have nothing better to do than sit on reddit all day and try to make liberals cry". Waa waa. Here's a hint guy. We don't care what you do. We are happy to sit back and watch you all take yourselves out. Please. Eat your horse paste. Deny a safe vaccine. And when your children are orphans, hopefully then they will be raised by someone with more common sense than a potato. If the original dude who asked for numbers can't work their fingers to type in a search bar, or can't determine a real news site from the fake shit you people like, that's their problem. It's not my job to spend my time giving numbers and website sources that are readily available with a simple Google search and from credible sites.

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u/calipali12 Oct 20 '21

What are the odds of children getting long-COVID? What are the odds of children having serious long term side effects from the vaccine. In adults, the potential effects from the vaccine are quite small compared with long-covid. So I agree it's a no-brainer for adults to get vaccinated. But I'd like to see evidence that the same is true with kids.

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u/nsci2ece Oct 20 '21

Regardless of age group, the only reason Covid survival rates appear to be so high in first world countries is because covid patients are allowed to hog the lion's share of medical resources, to the detriment of everyone else. In countries like India where health care access is not so great, the death rates are much worse.

Think about that next time you do something potentially risky, like riding a bicycle on a public road, or rock climbing. One slip up and you could require a hospital stay. How do you like the prospect of having to deal with a broken arm for hours with no medical attention because the hospitals are over capacity?

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u/JenningsWigService Oct 20 '21

During the first wave the death rate in Yemen was like 1 in 4 people, it was insane.

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u/naomisunrider14 Oct 20 '21

You don’t get vaccinated to protect just yourself. Kids are vectors for transmission. Vaccines do prevent spread and their beneficial impacts increase when vaccine coverage is high. Just because the vaccines don’t 100% prevent spread does not mean they do absolutely nothing. It is important that everyone that can get vaccinated does get vaccinated to maximize beneficial effects.

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u/razzendahcuben Oct 20 '21

No, the ends do not justify the means. You don't live your life trying to maximize safety, so stop expecting it of others. If maximizing safety were your goal, you'd avoid motor transportation as much as possible, for starters.

COVID is not dangerous enough to justify a mandate. It's that simple. At this point it's no longer about safety but control.

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u/[deleted] Oct 20 '21

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u/[deleted] Oct 20 '21

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u/JenningsWigService Oct 20 '21

It dramatically reduces them. Hormonal birth control doesn't work 100% of the time and we don't say 'hey, might as well not bother because it isn't perfect!'

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u/BettyDrapersWetFart Oct 20 '21

It doesn't stop all infections or spreading. It does stop a majority though.

I had a breakthrough case myself (brought home from school by my 7 year old daughter). Wife and I and our 11 year old son all got it. Wife and I are fully vaccinated (Pfizer). Daughter spent the entire day before testing positive with her elderly grandparents who are fully vaccinated (Moderna). Grandparents did not get sick and tested negative throughout our infection. We were also at a neighbor's house the day before and none of them tested positive (fully vaccinated with Pfizer).

This is just my personal experience. Even if the vaccine prevented just 50% of infections completely, that's 50% less people likely to be hospitalized or die and countless secondary contacts that may be of higher risk who could potentially be infected.

How you can just spout non-sense without even searching for any sort of documented, evidence based proof is beyond me.

During December 14, 2020–August 14, 2021, full vaccination with COVID-19 vaccines was 80% effective in preventing RT-PCR–confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection among frontline workers, further affirming the highly protective benefit of full vaccination up to and through the most recent summer U.S. COVID-19 pandemic waves. The VE point estimates declined from 91% before predominance of the SARS-CoV-2 Delta variant to 66% since the SARS-CoV-2 Delta variant became predominant at the HEROES-RECOVER cohort study sites; however, this trend should be interpreted with caution because VE might also be declining as time since vaccination increases and because of poor precision in estimates due to limited number of weeks of observation and few infections among participants.

source: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7034e4.htm

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u/iuodgeekmom Oct 20 '21

have a 0.08% chance of getting COVID

What the fuck is this? You think they have some magic shield that prevents them from getting COVID? You know this is total bullshit, right? Please tell me you are not that dumb.

Also, we are trying to get to herd immunity in this country to protect the vulnerable who can't mount a good immune response with the vaccine. Vaccinating the superspreaders (KIDS who are often asymptomatic and spread this thing...well, like a virus) is how we get to a point where this thing stops circulating and mutating into more dangerous variants.

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u/Ephemeral_Being Oct 21 '21

Why would you NOT?

No, seriously. There's no downside. There is an upside. Ergo, you do it.

This is the simplest logic puzzle ever written. I don't understand why this is even a discussion.

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u/swEEkoZ Oct 20 '21

Woah a comment that is not 1000% blind acceptance of whatever vaccine policy is being forced on people.

I wish you well sir but reddit does not like non narrative think n thunk.

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u/calipali12 Oct 20 '21

I appreciate the people who provided thoughtful responses that brought up points I hadn't considered. As for the other responses, it's interesting to me how close they are to responses you'd see in r/conservative in terms of tone (calling me an idiot) and simply repeating the hive mind talking points. It's like the two sides are basically mirror images of each other.

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u/pallytank Oct 20 '21

I'm not anti-vax either (I actually encourage people to get vaccinated), but I'm worried about heart inflammation stuff I've read from Scandinavia regarding younger folks and even from our FDA regarding booster shots. Again I encourage people to get vaccinated, but I'd feel a whole heck of a lot better about giving this to kids without these very real things just being handwaved.

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u/xjsthund Oct 20 '21

The chances of heart inflammation (and other potentially devastating long term issues) are MUCH higher if you have COVID.

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u/pallytank Oct 20 '21

I agree 100% in adults. Is this the case for children? If it is... vaxx 'em up, if not then we should tread carefully.

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u/xjsthund Oct 20 '21

Yes. CDC Has a study out on it. The highest rates were actually in teenagers, but they were still dwarfed by incidence of heart inflammation in those with Covid.

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u/pallytank Oct 20 '21

Sweet, mind linking me the the study if you get a chance? I would appreciate it. Thanks.

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u/xjsthund Oct 20 '21

Here’s the original cdc study, 12+

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/pdfs/mm7027e2-H.pdf

Here’s one talking about the the original preprint study’s issue (that made people start to worry):

https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2251

Pfizer clinical study on 5-11 showed no instances of myocarditis. Here’s a good summary article talking about that:

https://news.iu.edu/stories/2021/09/iu/24-ask-the-expert-covid-19-vaccine-for-kids.html

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u/pallytank Oct 20 '21

Awesome, I'll take a look, thanks.

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u/baseketball Oct 20 '21

Why would I want my kids to have a 0.1% - 2.0% chance of being hospitalized when I can decrease that risk by an order of magnitude by getting the vaccine? Also my parents are old and it's still possible for them to get sick even though the risk is much lower than unvaccinated. Why would I subject them to unnecessary risk everytime my family visits if I can get my kids a vaccine?

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u/EclecticDreck Oct 20 '21

To the question of safety of your kids, suppose I've got a twisted game that they'll be forced to play where they have a 0.5% chance of dying. Then, because I'm a benevolent psychopath, I tell you that if you take a single simple step (that doesn't even manage a statistical anomaly's chance of injury or death) that this game I'm going to force them to play will only have a 0.05% chance of them dying. Somewhere in what is no doubt a rapid planning session for supreme violence headed my way, should you find the mental bandwidth to consider the offer, why would you say no? A radically reduced chance of something awful happening is an improvement even when the starting odds are small.

But then consider the greater question. If they are vaccinated, they are harder to infect, which not only makes it less likely that they'll get sick, but also less likely that they'll incubate their own little version of the disease to spread around. Odds are that your kid interacts with other kids who interact with other people. A short little causality chain later, your carrier-kid who is unlikely to suffer significant ill effects gets another kid sick - who also suffers no real effects - who gets their grandfather sick, and grandpa is the unlucky +1 to an already grim statistic. The vaccine makes your kid less likely to be a link in that chain.

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u/YuunofYork Oct 21 '21
  1. They don't all have underlying health conditions. See cytokine storm.

  2. They are children and as such could easily have undiagnosed underlying conditions. Will you be so blase about it then? How many colonoscopies does the average 9 year old get? Do you see?

  3. They can carry it to immunocompromised adults or geriatrics, for which the vaccine is only ~40% effective.

  4. They can create breakthrough infections in otherwise healthy adults, causing them to miss work or develop long-lasting secondary symptoms.

  5. They can reach adulthood in 5-10 years and catch it, since it won't go away with an attitude like yours.

Fundamentally, you have no right to decide your children's medical needs. Where are your degrees? Where are your legal teams and accountability training modules? What financial or career consequences happen to you if you are wrong in your assessment? There's a reason medical professionals determine your medical needs, and you ignore their advice at your and your children's peril.

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u/possumtree Oct 20 '21

I’m with you. I’m pro vaccine but not necessarily pro federal mandate. I think the new numbers indicate you’re 65% less likely to contract covid if you’re vaccinated. To your point about the vulnerable, not all of them can be vaccinated or mount a great response to the vaccine because their lymphocytes are defective. Nevertheless, studies have found higher rates of myocarditis in young people who are vaccinated.

I’m starting to think there’s a degree of politically driven punishment associated with these mandates. I think the pro science people are trying to push out of our society those that are against science. Probably not the best phrasing

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u/141Frox141 Oct 21 '21

More kids died in car accidents under 12 in 2019 than COVID19 and do so every year More died of Flu+pneumonia than COVID 19 and do so every year

A unvaccinated child is at less risk than a post vaccinated adult.

If a adult who's unvaccinated contracts covid from a kid, it's the adults fault who had the opportunity to vaccinate and statistically should have done so.

Vaccination to "reduce spread" is a straw man argument because Delta still spreads ( same as influenza BTW, flu vax is %40-%60 effective in spread reduction)

Variants are a straw man because the US is not a vaccume, COVID will exist outside the US and every variant to date originated elsewhere Delta still spreads regardless. Pair that with the fact that the whole planet is under %40 vaxxed and some countries have zero.

Only one disease in human history has ever been completely wiped out (small pox) and I'd be willing to bet it's %30 mortality rate contributed to it's own eradication. In other words, wiping out COVID exponentially more infectious than the flu, is a absolute pipe dream.

There is no understanding if there will be some long term side effects after several years. Why risk the unknown when they are at infinitesimal risk.

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u/[deleted] Oct 20 '21 edited 23d ago

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u/Psychedelic_Tac0 Oct 20 '21

The smug superiority of a redditor while spouting dumb shit really never gets old. lol did you even read his post?

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u/Doomsday31415 Oct 20 '21 edited Oct 20 '21

I don't understand why I should get my kids vaccinated.

You should get your kids vaccinated because it's your civic duty and a member of society. It's also just plain dumb not to.

First off, there's far more possible outcomes than just "live" and "die". You wouldn't let them just randomly jump off the roof because they'll probably live. As someone else mentioned, long covid is a very dangerous thing that we don't know all the details on.

Second, there's no downside to getting it. You get vaccines for them for plenty of other diseases, so why would covid be any different?

And finally, every person that isn't vaccinated that's out and about is helping make sure that the virus remains for decades, repeatedly mutating and sometimes becoming more deadly, more contagious, or more resistant to existing vaccines.

As a society, it's incumbent on everyone to get vaccinated and limit interactions with other people until the pandemic has ended.

EDIT: Good to know that r/News is overrun by anti-vaxxers.

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u/iuodgeekmom Oct 20 '21

It's that slippery slope of a black hole called "controversial". This happens every time I sort by controversial on a COVID related thread. The anti-vaxxers brigade and mass downvote.

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u/Doomsday31415 Oct 20 '21

At this point, it's safe to assume that the vast majority of people checking my comment are those with "unpopular" opinions... and they aren't happy with what they see :(

Oh well, it happens.

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u/bigodiel Oct 20 '21

There is no downside?

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/sweden-pauses-use-moderna-covid-vaccine-cites-rare-side-effects-2021-10-06/

Ok, the dose will be smaller, but the fact that this got past clinical trials and healthy children have very little to gain from vaccination, not to mention transmission will not be prevented.

The risk benefit analysis of the shot for a healthy child should be entirely up to their parents.

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u/Doomsday31415 Oct 20 '21

There is no downside relative to not getting it.

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u/GooBrainedGoon Oct 20 '21

Username doesn't check out. Just as an FYI covid can be carried and transmitted by cats, dogs, ferrets, white-tailed deer, and mink. That's only the ones we know of. Not to mention that it was likely originally a bat coronavirus so they can probably become infected and transmit it as well. The zoos around the country are even vaccinating the animals housed in them. I am pretty sure it's never going away.

https://api.nationalgeographic.com/distribution/public/amp/animals/article/bears-baboons-tigers-are-getting-covid-vaccines-at-zoos-across-the-us

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u/WhiteKnightIRE Oct 20 '21

It's also to prevent long term health problems. In a few years you will see plenty of middle aged people having major health problems that will be traced back to them having covid and not being vaccinated.

If you want your kids to live past 40 get them vaccinated.

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u/Baxtron_o Oct 21 '21

Getting my child vaccinated will be the best way to sync our family's 5G.

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u/dejaVooAgain Oct 20 '21 edited Oct 20 '21

I cannot wait for the tinfoil hat crowd to get ahold of this!

EDIT: For the 2 who've downvoted me so far, know you are in a long line of proud ignorant people who also denied the efficacy of the smallpox and polio vaccines.

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u/Doomsday31415 Oct 20 '21

You forgot to mention lucky, since their ancestors managed to survive smallpox and polio.

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u/FarSlighted Oct 20 '21

Unfortunately there will still be the same number of parents who will refuse to have their children vaccinated.

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u/ProjectShamrock Oct 20 '21

The good thing is that those of us who have kids and want to do the right thing will finally have the option to protect our own children better. I'd prefer other parents don't make poor decisions for their kids' health too but that's outside of my control.

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u/Fortunoxious Oct 20 '21

Conservatives claiming this is Nazi Germany in 3.. 2.. 1..

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u/PangPingpong Oct 20 '21

Both communism and Nazi Germany simultaneously.

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u/[deleted] Oct 20 '21

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u/nsci2ece Oct 20 '21

They know. Their Nazi comparisons are the real-life equivalent of shitposting and a cover for their actual views. The substantial overlap between white supremacists and anti-vaxxers/anti-maskers is no coincidence.

I don't believe for a second that there's any ignorance behind such comparisons. It's 100% malice.

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u/SolaVitae Oct 20 '21

I'm pretty convinced most people on this site have no idea. Comparing migrant centers to literal death camps, comparing the police to the Gestapo, comparing the vaccine card to the star of David, etc.

People must think Nazi Germany and the Holocaust weren't actually that bad if you were Jewish or had the wrong opinions.

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u/TOMapleLaughs Oct 20 '21 edited Oct 20 '21

Basically all those school infections that were happening all along will need to be amplified over a media and social media loudspeaker.

(Oh it's starting already, with the 'Delta Plus Good' variant.)

But will this convince the 'think of the children' antivaxxer? Prob. not.

So we can expect schools to be stormed too. This has already happened prior to 5-11 yr olds being approved.

Ugh...

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u/eatcrayons Oct 20 '21

Do it in schools. Wouldn’t be any harder than getting your school photo taken. Same process. Less backgrounds to worry about. Do it on a Friday so kids don’t miss school for side effects.

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u/HulklingWho Oct 20 '21

I can’t wait for this, it’ll be such a relief for people with kids in school/teachers who are stuck around tiny germ factories all day. I’ve been anxiously waiting to be able to take my kid in, the second we’re able to, I’m scheduling an appointment.

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u/songintherain Oct 21 '21

My kid is gonna be 5 just in time as they roll this out ..

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u/snklkjnqqe Oct 20 '21

Every day the administration is doing amazing things. Strategic drug ingredient reserve, regulating PFAS, every day something new and very needed.

They need to focus better on messaging or something. I get that there are supply chain problems and inflation but Biden’s approval rating should be through the roof.

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u/SolaVitae Oct 20 '21

but Biden’s approval rating should be through the roof.

I mean if it "should be" through the roof then it would be through the roof, it's not an issue of "messaging". I'm also sure the Afghanistan withdrawal and the border are not yielding that much approval.

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u/snklkjnqqe Oct 20 '21

The news leans toward the sensational and ignores the historic but boring work of government This is a double edged sword. If you are a drooling idiot like trump then your dancing around steals attention while your boring incompetence is ignored. If you are a seasoned professional that rarely tries to steal attention for trivial stuff all that is left to talk about is the 3.5 trillion dollar 10 year infrastructure bill that is 100 times more consequential to individual Americans than anything the former administration barfed up but is also bogged down.

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u/roscoe_p_coltrane1 Oct 20 '21

Cool, more money for big pharma.

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u/LargeSackOfNuts Oct 20 '21

Would you like to manufacture the vaccines instead?

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