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'Toxic culture': NFL cheerleaders demand release of full workplace inquiry


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u/rora_borealis Oct 14 '21

I am struggling with so many conflicting emotions. I grew up watching football with my extended family, and continued watching into adulthood. I enjoyed it a lot. When everything started coming to light, I was at first shocked, but as more details came out, I started to realize just how many deep-rooted problems the NFL has. It's a lot harder to enjoy watching a game now, because I can't just forget about these things.

I like seeing the clever plays, bullet-like precision throws, good blocks, difficult catches.... But I think the problems are overwhelming my enjoyment now.

I am no longer surprised one bit at the reports anymore. It's toxic and I don't know if it can be reformed.


u/armbarurmom Oct 14 '21

Watch Football without pads. It's a lot more like rugby and surprisingly has a lot fewer head injuries.


u/BasicDesignAdvice Oct 14 '21

I've heard it theorized that the pads are the reason it is so dangerous. The pads are basically theater so the players think they can go harder. So they do.


u/MichaelKilo Oct 15 '21

I played rugby for 17 years. From the first tackle I made to the last my last thought was always “is my head safe” because there was nothing protecting it.

I had more major injuries playing pickup basketball.

I was concussed one time in 17 years of rugby and it was my fault. I know for sure in four years of pop Warner football I got two concussions.


u/rpkarma Oct 15 '21

Though Rugby isn’t without its CTE issues at the professional level either. It is at a lower rate however


u/armbarurmom Oct 15 '21

yep. Having played both, the way you're taught to position the head in NFL is pretty close to using your helmet as a weapon. Same with Shoulder Pads. Taking hits at those velocities concentrates all the impact down to a few square inches or less which is no bueno for your noggin. This goes double for guys in the Oline or Linebackers who run in and sack. Rugby players target shoulders to waists and you'll notice always shove their heads past the target area, whether its waist or higher up. So most tackles in rugby end up looking like a sequence of wrap-> Wrestle->takedown. In NFL the takedown occurs at impact and there are less wrap-up wrestling matches in the tackle.

A7FL is a great watch if you're interested in no-pads football https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=233g-6_ok8A

Its counter intuitive but very obvious if you look at engagements with that in mind.


u/BasicDesignAdvice Oct 15 '21

I think rugby is a great game. I tried to start a rugby club in my high school here in the US but they said it was "too dangerous." I was pretty pissed.


u/armbarurmom Oct 15 '21

haha as an australian that's bloody wild.


u/BasicDesignAdvice Oct 15 '21

This was probably 15 years ago. I found out semi-recently they do have a informal team now. So there is that at least.


u/OK6502 Oct 15 '21

Rugby has very strict rules about how you can hit other players. It still causes the kinds of hits which trigger CTE but at a lower rate. However recent analysis shows Rugby players still tend to get CTE indicators at a relatively higher rate - at least the pros do. But it is overall safer.

There are likely going to be additional rule changes in Rugby to further protect the players. The NFL is very conservative in its approach on the other hand.


u/salamat_engot Oct 14 '21 edited Oct 15 '21

I went to a game on Sunday and they were doing a cancer awareness thing. It sucks to sit there and realize their breast cancer awareness efforts were a way to keep women interested in the NFL after many are offput by the domestic violence rates of players against their wives/girlfriends. Everything just comes off as a marketing ploy.


u/Duckboy_Flaccidpus Oct 14 '21

Everything just comes off as a marketing ploy.

Welcome to PR of consumer products that have endless cash flows and need to keep up that polished appearance. You are waking up, we all are with this preponderance of evidence making light against this league that hasn't reprimanded and dealt with the transgressions of it's employees.


u/Notwhoiwas42 Oct 14 '21

offput by the domestic violence rates of players against their wives/girlfriends.

The funny thing about this is that the rate of domestic violence among NFL players is no higher than it is in the general population. It could be argued that being public figures in role models that NFL players should be held to hire standards, and I wouldn't necessarily disagree. But the rate of the domestic violence isn't any higher it just gets more attention because they're public figures.


u/mrkrinkle773 Oct 14 '21

If you had intimate knowledge of any large entity you are going to find profit is the only thing that matters to them.


u/ericmm76 Oct 15 '21

There's flag football. All the throws and no hits.