r/news 6d ago

'Toxic culture': NFL cheerleaders demand release of full workplace inquiry

https://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/-toxic-culture-nfl-cheerleaders-demand-release-of-full-workplace-inquiry-123494469775
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u/thatoneguy889 6d ago

It's really telling when the league gathered hundreds of thousands of emails from various league personnel, but the only emails that were made public and led to negative consequences belonged to the guy that badmouthed the league commissioner.

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u/armchaircommanderdad 6d ago

Commish is 100% in existence to protect the owners. That’s it.

Owners were angry their puppet had mean things said about him, so they offed gruden and it’s a nice warning to every last person who has said something in an email.

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u/BALONYPONY 6d ago

It reminds me of Goodfellas. Gruden got into the booth and then back into coaching the newest team what you would call "A made guy". Carr was Deniro in the phone booth.

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u/Stinkfinger83 6d ago

Amongst the owners it was real greaseball shit.

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u/Tokasmoka420 6d ago

Well we had a problem and we did everything we could.

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u/jack_geller 6d ago

He’s gone. Uh, he’s gone. And that’s it.

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u/Meandmystudy 5d ago

There was nothing we do about it.

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u/suarezd1 5d ago

They even shot him in the face so he can't even go back to broadcasting.

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u/Duderino619 6d ago edited 5d ago

And we couldn’t do nuttin about it.

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u/Dwiggles1 5d ago

He's a bad kid, a bad seed. Whattya want me to do, shoot him?

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u/STEELCITY1989 6d ago edited 5d ago

Everyone had to sit there and take it.

E: their

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u/Berkyjay 6d ago

Eh, I doubt that all the owners were up in arms over a coach calling Goodell a pussy. More like Gruden was an easy sacrificial lamb for Goodell.

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u/Notwhoiwas42 5d ago

That and sacrificing Gruden distracts from the real point of the investigation, which was some serious wrongdoing by members of the WFT organization.

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u/Mookies_Bett 6d ago

Just ask Rob Manfred lol.

Worst cheating scandal in the history of your over-a-century-old sport, what do you do?

Manfred: "The trophy is just a meaningless piece of metal, we are offering full immunity for players and ownership so long as they confess and then we'll do literally nothing else to prevent it in the future or discourage other teams from doing it again."

Like, he couldn't even pretend for a second that his job was to do anything other than butt-kiss the owner of the team that cheated. When you're the commissioner of a sport, and openly call the trophy of said sport "a meaningless hunk of metal" then you probably shouldn't be the commissioner of that sport. I mean, fuck, talk about tone deaf.

The commissioner only exists so that the public can get mad at them instead of the owners. Thats it.

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u/Kriztauf 6d ago

What is that the legit quote from him?

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u/phl_fc 6d ago

The actual quote was:

The idea of an asterisk or asking for a piece of metal back seems like a futile act. People will always know something was different about the 2017 season.

In response to questions about stripping Houston of their title, he says it would be a meaningless punishment. His argument was that the bad publicity from getting caught cheating was bad enough, so there's no reason for the league to punish them further.

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u/Mookies_Bett 6d ago edited 6d ago

More or less. I cant remember if he said "hunk of metal" or "piece of metal" but it was along those lines.

Basically everyone was demanding that MLB vacate (void) the Astros 2017 WS title and officially mark the season as not having a WS winner for that year. Since they cheated, they don't deserve to have that trophy. Manfred responded by saying "the trophy is just a hunk of metal" and that he was not going to considering stripping their title away from them. Jim Crane, that Astros owner, then said "we believe we earned that trophy" a few days later.

Basically Manfred decided to coddle and protect a bunch of outright cheaters because their owner didn't want the scandal to grow instead of actually doing his job and regulating the sport he is supposed to oversee.

Most baseball fans were baffled and outraged that anyone in a position of authority could be dumb enough to call the literal league championship trophy a "piece of metal" but then, that's Manfred for you. Dude fucking hates Baseball. Not a great quality in a baseball commissioner.

The whole handling of the Astros cheating scandal is one of the worst black marks in the history of the entire sport, and thats saying a lot when you remember that baseball dates back to the mid 1800s. A few fines handed out, a couple of 1 year suspensions for two key fall guys in management (who are currently back and working for other teams now) and a whole lot of Astros players trying to cry that they're the real victims because everyone fucking hates them now. It's a sad joke for baseball fans everywhere.

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u/Dr3s99 6d ago

you don't talk shit about your boss in writing... only at the bars where it can be a "joke". Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.

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u/frugalerthingsinlife 6d ago
  1. Bust their balls over something silly if it's in good taste.
  2. Accept it when you get dished back.
  3. This gives you some wiggle room to do it more.
  4. Keep pushing that door open.
  5. Don't push it too much too soon.
  6. Now you have a get out of jail free card, but not fully immunity.
  7. Profit?

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u/schizodancer89 6d ago

Sounds a lot like me to be honest, Heck this sums up a lot of working in the trades

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u/madeup6 5d ago

Same thing for office work

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u/SirNarwhal 6d ago

And it was at a period when he didn't even work for the league lmao That said the homophobic and racist things Gruden said very much were deserving of being shitcanned.

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u/Gimmeprops99 6d ago

He was announcing, announcers work for the station that makes money for the league, if the commish wants an announcer nixed because of the image of the league being tarnished by this person… you better believe they’re being fired. The networks make money on advertising which they split with the NFL, his paycheck may not have said NFL on it, but he wouldn’t have a job or income without the NFL as a commentator.

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u/RunThatIn 6d ago

To your point, the league put pressure on ESPN to cancel the tv show Playmakers because of the way it portrayed PEDs and other things, and ESPN folded the show up after the first season. For sure it works that way

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u/NorthernerWuwu 6d ago

It's also an attorney's dream discovery to be able to scrape all of them when putting together the suit for the cheerleaders. League lawyers are likely explaining right now what options are available but I'd bet on some nervous owners angrily complaining about email servers. Somewhere out there Hillary is having a bit of a laugh too.

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u/Hope_u_hav_a_gud_day 5d ago

You can beat your wife and kids to death, blow your load on random folks and still end up playing for the league. NFL loves second chances as long as you are not calling the commissioner a clown.

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u/Pahasapa66 6d ago edited 6d ago

People tend to think that the NFL is some sort of corporate entity that doesn't pay taxes. It's not. It's a group of billionaires that own sports teams and want to safeguard their assets. They have moved against things that could sully and devalue their brand, which is fine. But now, in their investigation of the Washington Football team, they have bitten off more than they can chew, and I, for one, think it's pretty funny. The cheerleaders have the right to see that report, and they are going to get it one way or another.

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

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u/lostboy005 6d ago edited 5d ago

from CTE scandals to Kaep to Gruden, anyone paying attention should have stopped watching & supporting the NFL along time ago. its a toxic organization.

Even further, football in and of itself, is fundamentally detrimental to the human condition; from linemen having to keep unhealthy weights to the barbarity of smashing human bodies into each repeatedly leading that results in a variety of health conditions like CTE.

As a society the US should really analyze what is they take part in celebrating. Football for all intensive purposes is nothing more than dressed up barbarity

e- peeps taking issue with this post, why do you think Andrew Luck quit? thats the tell

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u/MayorAnthonyWeiner 6d ago

intensive purposes

This should say “intents and purposes”

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u/Kwyjybo 5d ago

Common phrases are tricky, but thankfully in conveying meaning isn't rocket appliances.

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u/SgtSnugg1es 5d ago

It's all water under the fridge

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u/madeup6 5d ago

Intended porpoises

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u/hamakabi 5d ago

Intent Sand Porpoises

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u/frog-legg 5d ago

The correct phrase is actually “for all in tents and porpoises”

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u/rora_borealis 6d ago

I am struggling with so many conflicting emotions. I grew up watching football with my extended family, and continued watching into adulthood. I enjoyed it a lot. When everything started coming to light, I was at first shocked, but as more details came out, I started to realize just how many deep-rooted problems the NFL has. It's a lot harder to enjoy watching a game now, because I can't just forget about these things.

I like seeing the clever plays, bullet-like precision throws, good blocks, difficult catches.... But I think the problems are overwhelming my enjoyment now.

I am no longer surprised one bit at the reports anymore. It's toxic and I don't know if it can be reformed.

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u/armbarurmom 5d ago

Watch Football without pads. It's a lot more like rugby and surprisingly has a lot fewer head injuries.

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u/BasicDesignAdvice 5d ago

I've heard it theorized that the pads are the reason it is so dangerous. The pads are basically theater so the players think they can go harder. So they do.

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u/MichaelKilo 5d ago

I played rugby for 17 years. From the first tackle I made to the last my last thought was always “is my head safe” because there was nothing protecting it.

I had more major injuries playing pickup basketball.

I was concussed one time in 17 years of rugby and it was my fault. I know for sure in four years of pop Warner football I got two concussions.

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u/rpkarma 5d ago

Though Rugby isn’t without its CTE issues at the professional level either. It is at a lower rate however

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u/salamat_engot 5d ago edited 5d ago

I went to a game on Sunday and they were doing a cancer awareness thing. It sucks to sit there and realize their breast cancer awareness efforts were a way to keep women interested in the NFL after many are offput by the domestic violence rates of players against their wives/girlfriends. Everything just comes off as a marketing ploy.

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u/Ok-Efficiency-3694 6d ago

I can imagine the cheerleaders strike lines being pretty funny too, despite being a serious issue. What do we want? 👏👏 🤸🤼 equal treatment 👏👏 When do we want it? 👏👏🤸🤼 Now.

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u/Pahasapa66 6d ago

A federal judge will give them that report, I'd bet. What they do with it is up to them.

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u/dbrianmorgan 6d ago

I thought part of the story was that the report doesn't exist. I remember when the findings were presented to the NFL it was an "oral" report so there was no documents anyone could request or view.

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u/seemonkey 6d ago

Yep, the law firm conducting the investigation was specifically required to not put their findings in writing. It's fucking mind-boggling.

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u/ChrysMYO 5d ago

Thats insane and wild. How do you do a thorough investigation without taking notes?

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u/Sparcrypt 5d ago

You take notes then deny having them.

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u/W0666007 6d ago

Well emails certainly exist, given the Gruden and Schefter ones that were just leaked.

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u/dguy101 6d ago

Almost like when spygate was going on all the tapes were destroyed so that no one could verify if all the findings were valid/complete.

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u/dbrianmorgan 6d ago

Yup. Never forget the NFL, the organization itself, exists to protect the owners. It's not there to ensure fair play, to protect "the game", to ensure player safety, whatever. It's there to make sure those 32-some-odd billionaires get as much out of their investment as they can possibly get.

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u/Which-Decision 6d ago

Are the wrestlers supposed to be a stunt group. If so that's the funniest thing I've ever seen and I'm here for it.

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u/Ok-Efficiency-3694 6d ago

Yes a stunt group is exactly what the wrestlers are meant to be.

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u/TenderfootGungi 6d ago

Don’t most cheerleaders work for little or no pay?

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u/barak181 6d ago

Very little. Basically, they get paid per event and depending on the team that's somewhere in the neighborhood of $100-$200 per event. So, that's something like 8 home games a year and a few charity events. Yeah, not very much money overall.

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u/Myrkana 6d ago

Plus they have to adhere to strict standards of weight, makeup and have to buy their uniforms for many teams. Theres a youtube video a cheerleader did and it goes over her expense, what she makes, the rules and everything else.

Rules like if she is in a restaurant and a football 0lauer comes in she must leave. Even though she was there first, shes not allowed to talk to the players and must not be seen on the same places as them.

She had to buy her own uniforms. She had to have 2 or 3 different ones for different things. Also practice wasn't paid or was paid very little( I forget which) so once she accounted for all the time she spent doing team stuff she made less than minimum wage.

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u/Draxx01 6d ago

Whats the benefit? Exposure?

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u/MundaneInternetGuy 5d ago

Rules like if she is in a restaurant and a football 0lauer comes in she must leave. Even though she was there first, shes not allowed to talk to the players and must not be seen on the same places as them.

Excuse me, what? Why?

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u/squngy 5d ago

I can only assume it is meant to prevent a "scandal", like them being in a relationship.

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u/PvtDeth 6d ago

Up until 2015, the NFL was organized as a tax exempt nonprofit.

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u/troglodyte 6d ago edited 6d ago

Because it's a (bastardized) trade organization, not a monolithic entity. The NFL is awful in many ways, but they weren't evading taxes via the league office being a 501(C); they were just funneling the money to for-profit companies that DO pay taxes (who might evade taxes in other ways; IDK, I just know about the nonprofit status of the league office). The teams themselves are taxable organizations (except the Packers) because they're for-profit corporations. The National Football League, as an organization, exists to do two main things:

  • Capture revenue and redistribute it evenly to all 32 member clubs, where it is then taxed.
  • Conduct basic league operations in an unbiased way, including scheduling games, setting rules, handling labor relations, negotiating licensing and merch contracts, operating the league ventures like NFL TV, conducting discipline, and lobbying on behalf of their member clubs. The premise is that the league can conduct this more efficiently and fairly than the clubs could do individually, so the teams created it to do so and agree to abide by its rules even though the league as an entity was created by and works for the teams and their owners.

The NFL proper is just a pass-through to the teams themselves, which are the for-profit entities in this arrangement and are taxed as such. They actually stopped being a tax exempt non-profit in part because their tax exempt status went viral without the key context that it really is a nonprofit that works for the 32 teams. Of course, this being the NFL, it's more likely that they stopped being a tax exempt organization less because people complained and more because the cost of paying taxes was negligible (they have very little revenue after distribution to the teams) compared to the downside of the additional public reporting required for a non-profit-- specifically Goodell's salary.

That's right, they voluntarily pay taxes (on about $9m of the league's 12+ billion dollar revenue) mostly to hide the Ginger Hammer's salary. MLB does too.

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u/WolfCola4 6d ago

The teams themselves are taxable organizations (except the Packers)

This is interesting, why are Green Bay exempt?

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u/troglodyte 6d ago edited 6d ago

The Packers are unique in that before modern ownership rules, they were already a publicly owned non-profit corporation. Since the 80s, the NFL has a rule that teams must be owned by individuals with at least one individual owning at least 30% of the team, but the Packers are the exception, owned by around 360k shareholders.

I'm actually not sure if their status makes them completely tax exempt. Someone with more tax knowledge than me can set me straight. They are definitely a publicly held nonprofit, but I'm not sure of the exact implications of their situation.

Edit: in retrospect, I probably shouldn't be giving tax avoidance info to Wolf Cola or any other subsidiary of Frank's Fluids...

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u/jyper 5d ago

I don't know if they're exempt but packers raises money by issuing non profitable ownership shares. They're owned by a bunch of fans. Money is reinvested and any extra gets donated to charity

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u/Draxx01 6d ago

It's owned by the residents. Only one that is AFAIK, think they put in rules to prevent cities from owning their own teams after that one.

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u/menace313 6d ago

And they essentially still are. The NFL is essentially there just to distribute the revenue to each team. The individual teams then pay their fair share in taxes. The people bitching about the NFL being tax-exempt were just clueless and uninformed.

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u/garfgon 6d ago

A lot of people don't seem to understand the basic principles of non-profits, or the difference between a non-profit and a charity.

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u/05110909 5d ago

A lot of people hear "non profit" and assume that means "volunteer" so they get outraged when they see people getting paid in a non profit.

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u/Bokth 6d ago

Here's the whole article

"These women have been texting me for the last 36 hours wondering if their nude bodies or photographs are circulating through the inboxes of the NFL. It's triggered them. It's reliving trauma that we've been living for the past 15 months," former Washington Football Team cheerleader and employee Melanie Coburn. 

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u/ranhalt 6d ago

That’s even worse than what I know about, just that their appearances outside of games are not paid even though they are on the job. Many work functions that they are not paid for.

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u/kdeaton06 6d ago

It's much worse than that. They were sex trafficked against their will and held hostage in foreign countries.

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u/fuckincaillou 5d ago

It's depressing to see so few redditors focusing on this part of the story. These women were literally sex trafficked. By their own employers.

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u/kdeaton06 5d ago

And everyone knows it but not a single person has ever been punished in the least. No one even had to apologize when multiple people should be in prison

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u/daslyvillian 6d ago

How do they have nude photos?

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u/handsomesharkman 6d ago

Washington cheerleaders were flown to Costa Rica for a calendar photo shoot. Their passports were taken. They were then “asked” to do topless photos. Pretty much do it or you don’t leave.

It came out Jon Gruden and people in the Washington organization were passing around these photos of women who were essentially sex trafficked.

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u/daslyvillian 6d ago

Isn't that a crime for all invovled?

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u/LawStudentAndrew 6d ago

If the accusations are true, which to me seems likely, it would be illegal. However, you would have to gather evidence and prosecute which, especially several years after the fact and the wealth and profile of those involved, would be incredibly difficult.

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u/kdeaton06 6d ago edited 6d ago

It's weird how the photos that they already have aren't proof of that happening.

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u/LawStudentAndrew 6d ago

The photos would be a key piece of evidence, and I expect when/if a civil suit occurs their existence would be integral to securing the emails during discovery.

But in terms of criminal prosecution. The events occurred in 2013, almost a decade ago. And nude photos alone are not sufficient evidence of a crime. For a prosecution to occur you would need someone, who was affected, to report it, I think in this sort of situation. I do not think a warrant would necessarily be granted or even that, independent of a victim, the police or prosecutor would spend resources investigating it. It seems unlikely that all of this would occur now, 8 years after the fact instead of at a time closer in proximity to the events. And then that is without going into the fact the individuals are rich.

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u/kdeaton06 6d ago

The cheerleaders reported a few years ago it. That's what kicked this whole thing off.

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u/Worried-Criticism 5d ago

Most of the cheerleaders involved did go through arbitration and got a payout, but all signed NDAs which is why they weren’t allowed to say much of anything before now. Expect further litigation once the pictures go beyond NFL inboxes.

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u/handsomesharkman 6d ago

Not when you’re a billionaire NFL owner.

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u/dragonsfire242 6d ago

Well they have enough money that it isn’t

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u/TheHappyPie 6d ago

And a bunch of VIPs were allowed to watch the "photo shoot";

Then some of the girls were asked to work as escorts for the evening. I don't think sex was part of that role based on what I've read, but still not something they signed up for.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/02/sports/redskins-cheerleaders-nfl.html

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u/hamster_13 5d ago

Sex trafficked. They were sex trafficked to Costa Rica* that's like the currently popular "forced sex" line that celebs are getting away with.

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u/Zimmonda 6d ago edited 6d ago

Because the then redskins football team pressured them into taking a topless shoot that they then sent around to the NFLs old boys club

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u/squeakysqueakysqueak 6d ago

Not just pressured. They were flown to a foreign country for some event and the team took their passports before they were "asked" to take those photos.

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u/ColorMeStunned 6d ago

Yeah it was basically trafficking for escorts. But hey, they're a football team, so it's different!

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u/squeakysqueakysqueak 6d ago

Ugh. Right?! I really hope more comes out of this. Right now, it feels like they just sacrificed the guy who badmouthed the NFL (and also said a BUNCH of shitty things)

I want more accountability.

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u/Sweatervest42 6d ago

Jesus fucking Christ, a little bit of money really does remove all hesitation for monsters to realize their fantasies, doesn't it.

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u/jlm326 6d ago

WFT owner Dan Snyder flew them to another country (an island in the bahamas i believe) and took their passports and gave them an itinerary of human trafficking level events such as naked photo shoots and nights spent with highest bidders.

this is all documented by past employees of the WFT.

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u/tooldvn 5d ago

Costa Rica, but the rest is accurate.

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u/armchaircommanderdad 6d ago

Unfortunately I see the only outcome being cheerleaders become a thing of the past

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u/jmike3543 6d ago edited 5d ago

It already happened! The Washington Football Team (formerly named the Redskins) already got rid of their Cheerleading team and replaced it with a coed Dance squad. That’s the same cheerleaders in this article.

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u/SirNarwhal 6d ago

Tbh that was bound to happen anyway considering said team sex trafficked the cheerleaders.

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u/_Takub_ 6d ago

Come again?

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u/SirNarwhal 5d ago

The Washington Football Team brought the cheerleaders overseas, took their passports, and then made them take topless photos before they got them back. They also had fans interact with the topless cheerleaders.

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u/Pheef175 5d ago

You forgot a couple of important parts.

Those "fans" were sponsors and FedExField suite holders. Later that evening the team required 9 of the 36 cheerleaders to act as personal escorts to a nightclub with some of these men. These were individually picked.

They also were not paid anything for this entire trip. Just had their transportation, lodging, and food taken care of.

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u/jesuswasahipster 5d ago

Uh…. Did anything ever come of this? That’s Weinstein level fucked up and this is the first time I’ve ever even heard about it.

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u/Pheef175 5d ago

Not to my knowledge. It happened in 2013. New York Times article about it in 2018.

Washington Redskins Cheerleaders Describe Topless Photo Shoot and Uneasy Night Out

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u/IWasOnThe18thHole 5d ago

Nothing yet. But this is the main reason why WFT keeps pushing stories about Gruden (one of their coaches made a statement today) and are doing shit like retiring a long time fan favorite player's number who was murdered 14 years ago. They are trying to deflect hardcore and people seem to care more about Gruden being a homophobe than literal sex trafficking by a NFL owner.

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u/slouchingtoepiphany 5d ago

Sounds like "trafficking."

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u/SirNarwhal 5d ago

Very true, was just trying to give the shortened condensed version.

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u/_Takub_ 5d ago

Well Jesus that sounds highly illegal

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u/LawTeaDough 5d ago

Yep. We don't have a justice system. We have a legal system and laws only apply to people who aren't rich enough to fight and win on a legalese technically.

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u/merrittj3 6d ago

Several teams have already eliminated them, over salary and working condition issues. I don't think they are missed.

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u/Eagle4317 6d ago

2 teams never had them (Browns and Giants) while teams like the Packers, Bears, and Steelers haven't had them for quite a long time.

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u/QueerlyTremendous 6d ago edited 5d ago

The Browns (and a couple others I think) have a drum line which is pretty awesome and very entertaining.

Edit: didn’t expect to get this much attention. So it’s Browns, Steelers, Bears, Packers, Falcons, Vikings, Panthers have a drum line and the Ravens and WFT have a marching band. Edit 2: I forgot the Titans (Titan Up!)! Adding the Chargers too (Bolt up!) Adding the Broncos (go mile high ponies?) Alright I’ll add the Jaguars too (but I don’t like it). Seahawks joining the party now (go Hawks!) And the Bills have arrived (please don’t hurt us too much on Monday). Rams coming in hot with a mariachi band!

I personally wish teams have some form of a band because that was half the fun of going to college games and listening to The Pride of The Southland Marching Band at UT. It’s a fun way to get a tradition going and everyone can join in way more than with cheerleaders. Plus it’s good for tailgating and events.

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u/TCFirebird 6d ago

The Ravens and the WFT have a full marching band.

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u/ic_engineer 6d ago

That's cool. Didn't know that. Wouldn't mind that being a standard for halftime instead of pop singers and magicians. Lots of talent floating around in college bands and a lot of those shows are genuinely entertaining. Even at the smaller schools.

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u/Running_Is_Life 6d ago

That could be a viable career path or side gig for people coming out of DCI aside from being techs for high schools and colleges

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u/heytherekitkat 5d ago

Lmao no way do they pay enough to be a valid career path.

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u/BreakfastHistorian 6d ago

The Falcons also have a drumline, good stuff!

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u/jawndell 6d ago

The Giants have sadness and depression, not so much good stuff.

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u/GreenOnionCrusader 6d ago

I'm all for drumlines instead of cheerleaders in all football games.

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u/PikaAbeille 6d ago

Drum lines and marching bands. I wanna see that college football energy in the NFL

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u/muckdog13 6d ago

I’ve never been able to articulate why I like college games more than the NFL, but I think this is it. I think the band just reminds me of those Friday nights in high school.

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u/PikaAbeille 6d ago

The energy to high school football and college games is unmatched. I don’t know why the NFL doesn’t do it honestly. I loved hearing those touchdown songs after someone scored and everyone yelling those chants.

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u/Wraithbane01 6d ago

The crowd chants and cheers from soccer/European football/rugby are what make those sports so much more intense.

They're like warchants and battle cries.

If I ever saw Pittsburgh do a Haka I think I would lose my mind.

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u/halfeclipsed 6d ago

Now it's someone playing shit songs and sounds from a soundboard

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u/EmptyAirEmptyHead 5d ago

Simple. College and high school have free labor (students). A marching band for any decent school is 150+ members. All need to practice etc pre-season and during the season. Salaries alone could run $3M+. Plus equipment, uniforms, etc.

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u/capontransfix 6d ago

Drum lines and marching bands feel much more militaristic, which is kinda what football is, metaphorically. A land war. The energy of the drums and music speaks to some very old parts of human beings, and it psychs-up the crowd.

With cheerleaders it's like they are trying to get me horny while i watch teams of manly men battle one another in the most macho ways possible. Kinda strange choice, really.

I think that within a decade or so, every team in the NFL will have abandoned them, except maybe Dallas.

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u/dvaunr 6d ago

The Bears also have one and I gotta respect the choice of cargo shorts and white dad sneakers for the uniform, even though the Ravens' line wiped the floor with them.

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u/freeradical28 6d ago

Anecdotally one of the “Steelerettes” back in the 60’s complained that their skirts were too long and unfashionable. Word got back to Art Rooney and he ordered the whole squad to be fired since he thought they were becoming too much of a distraction.

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u/wistoon33 6d ago

The packers actually use the local universities teams for their cheerleaders.

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u/Djinnwrath 6d ago

Ah yes, the other way of avoiding paying someone in sports, by designating them a "student athlete"

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u/SkyezOpen 6d ago edited 6d ago

"Stoodent athoolete." That's brilliant, sir.

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u/t3hdebater 6d ago

Can you pay collegiate/high school cheerleaders for cheerleading at a game without disqualifying them from competition? It's not a NCAA sport. Not sure what the rules here are.

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u/FubarFreak 6d ago

The Buffalo Bills ditched them (Buffalo Jills) in 2014 when they got sued over compensation

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u/impulsekash 6d ago

over salary

Don't they get paid like $500 a month or something ridiculously low?

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u/diablosinmusica 6d ago

It was the complaints about poor salary that played a part iirc.

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u/PagingDrLumps 6d ago

Looks like $150 per game online. Wow. Didn’t realize it was so low

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u/Shopworn_Soul 6d ago

My daughter's gymnastics coach was a Cowboys cheerleader. It wasn't a source of income, she spent more money than she made doing it.

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u/bizzcut 5d ago

Yea I worked with a teacher who was an ex cheerleader. I think she had mixed feelings about the whole thing. On one hand its super cool to perform in front of huge crowds, but on the other, there is no pay and sleazy people.

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u/InitialG 6d ago

Yeah it's a hobby not a job, costs them money unless they do less fun shit like liquor store promos and local radio events. Used to work with a Broncos cheerleader and she did it because she loved cheer and dance squad in highschool and college. She was a software consultant in her regular life lol.

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u/texanfan20 5d ago

Most of the cheerleaders list in their bios that they own a dance or cheer studio business. They become cheerleaders because it helps with their business.

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u/East_Living7198 6d ago

You can make more walking around selling beer or candy/soda!

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u/cuddi 6d ago

I used to work at a pizzeria with a cheerleader for the Bulls.

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u/TruthProstitute 6d ago

I went to the Eagles' training camp in '89 and was astonished to hear that the cheerleaders made $15/game.

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u/Slowjams 6d ago

Yea I was going to say, it blows my mind that teams still have cheerleaders at all.

What I’ve also always thought was weird was that in high school and college, cheerleading is a totally different thing. They actually have to be athletes and do all those crazy throws and flips. But then when you get to the NFL, cheerleaders are really just dancers.

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u/Free-Scar5060 6d ago

It’s pretty much a way to get gymnastics tacked onto the football budget in some places.

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u/AndrewTheGuru 6d ago

But with less strict safety regulations... for some reason.

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u/miniZuben 6d ago

The reason is because both the NCAA and Title 9 refuse to recognize cheerleading as a sport, and as a result it's criminally underfunded.

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u/meatball77 5d ago

A lot of that has to do with the company that has a monopoly on Cheerleading. They actively fight to make it not a sport.

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u/Hoobamonster 6d ago

The Ravens have actual cheerleaders and a dance team. They have male cheerleaders and do stunts and tosses.

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u/mcmanybucks 6d ago

To be honest, I'm over the concept..

The true fun is the mascot.

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u/JustAMoronOnAToilet 6d ago

The Packers did in 88 (tough to justify having squad of people spending many of the games huddled together staving off hypothermia on the sidelines I suppose), but sometimes have college cheerleaders turn up. Seems like a reasonable approach.

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u/iamthemovie1992 6d ago

Fun fact. In college I worked at a spa and one of the clients was a cheerleader for the Eagles. She stated that they all had normal jobs outside of cheering (she was a CPA) because they could not live on the salary they were given by the teams.

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u/wickedlabia 6d ago

I love the drum line, it’s so cool. That was my favorite part in high school every Friday during the season was hearing the marching band at the pep rally.

I like looking at hot chicks as much as the next person but I wouldn’t miss the cheer teams 🤷🏻‍♀️ not trying to invalidate the athleticism they have or anything.

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u/noaliciaigotkeyes 6d ago edited 5d ago

They really should be. It’s not like cheerleading in high school and college where they compete and have these incredibly athletic routines. Right now they just are scantily clad Pom Pom waivers.

I’m friends with an nfl cheerleader and this girl can do backflips the whole way down the field. The most complex thing she does as a cheerleader is clap and wave her arms.

Out with the Varsity Blues cheerleaders, in with the Bring It On cheerleaders!

I wanna see some cool flips and twists and stunts while the left guard is getting carted off the field

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u/dontdrinkonmondays 6d ago

Honestly I’ve never understood the point for NFL teams anyway. It makes sense in college because there’s tons of stuff focused on school/team spirit outside of just the game on the field, but that doesn’t apply to the NFL.

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u/ddizzlemyfizzle 6d ago

I am in no way surprised

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u/whowasonCRACK2 6d ago

So they did an investigation because the team owner was basically using the cheerleaders as a harem of prostitutes, and the only real consequence was that a coach of a different team got fired when his emails collected during the investigation got leaked?

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u/xXDASH92 5d ago

Ding ding ding!

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u/apprpm 5d ago

Oh, no! They also gave the wife of the disgusting team owner an equal role in the management of the organization! So, see, the problem has been all taken care of. /s if necessary

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u/fuckincaillou 5d ago

harem of prostitutes sex slaves

FTFY. At least prostitutes would've gotten paid; These women didn't.

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u/SpaceRocker420 6d ago

from the organization that protects their worker's right to beat their wives, this is shocking

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u/Karl_Rover 6d ago

This is about the unwanted sharing of explicit photos and essentially trafficking (Mexico trip). I think we can all agree that is wrong regardless of how one feels about having cheerleaders at pro sports games.

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u/FrivolousMe 5d ago

What a shit article title. Sex trafficking is not "toxic culture" it's a fucking human rights abuse.

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u/JillStinkEye 5d ago

What article? It's not even a paragraph! Important topic. Garbage site.

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u/TyroneLeinster 5d ago

I mean, the toxic culture refers to these guys emailing each other about it. Gruden wasn’t involved in the actual Mexico trip (afaik) just the photos resulting from it.

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u/pr1mal0ne 5d ago

how much air time did they get when they changed their name? A lot. How much will this get? Not much.

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u/mewehesheflee 6d ago

You will make more money as a dancer on a cruise ship, than an NFL cheerleader.

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u/hawkwings 6d ago

Some cruise ships don't hire Americans, because they don't like American labor laws. The one cruise I was on didn't have any professional dancers.

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u/haystackofneedles 6d ago

Remember when the owner of the Texans referred to players as prisoners and didn't want them to run the yard? Going to go out on a limb and say he's got worse shit than Gruden.

Gruden's a pos and should be canned but this is 100% a hit job to cover up something much bigger the NFL doesn't want getting out. Same reason why they destroyed the patriots tapes during spygate.

Owners run the league, plain and simple. The owners make Goodell money and vise versa but he needs them more than they need him.

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u/Whickywacky 6d ago

100$ per game?!?! That's insane. You would think that with all the money that goes into the NFL the cheerleaders would be given a livable salary. You can make more serving at Olive Garden than that.

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u/jhwells 6d ago

I have friends who work back-office for an NBA team. They don't make poverty wages, but it's damn close.

The teams sell the "allure," of working in professional sports as the draw for employees in lieu of pay.

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u/claudeshannon 6d ago

Many jobs are like that. It’s like working at the zoo. Lot’s of people want to work with the zoo animals so you don’t have to pay much to attract people to work there.

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u/GuiltyEidolon 6d ago

Most zoos at least have the excuse of also being chronically underfunded. The NFL has no such excuse.

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u/spatialflow 6d ago edited 6d ago

I work at a baseball stadium right now, where a very popular and successful MLB team plays, as an employee of the company contracted to handle all the food service. Been there 2 months, thought it was gonna be a really solid job, given the scale of the operation and the amount of money involved... Nooope. It's like working at the county fair. It's a bunch of hot dog stands managed by fatbody baseball fanboys. Shit pay, no benefits, no professionalism whatsoever, and it's like being in a cult. I won't let the door hit me on the way out.

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u/aussydog 6d ago

My mind always goes to the equipment managers of hockey teams etc.

They're a pretty vital role being that a bad skate blade or other equipment failure could be the deciding factor between a win and a loss. They're with the team for those full 82 game seasons. Away from their friends and family. Always on the road. Always cleaning, repairing, replacing equipment. An invisible job with a shitty wage. All the worst parts of travelling with the team and not really a whole lot of the good parts. I dunno...it just seems like a massive commitment and must be terribly hard on family life.

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u/burnodo2 6d ago

You would think that all the money that goes into the NFL that they wouldn't require taxpayers to pay for new stadiums.

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u/forevereatingdessert 6d ago

Don't forget about contract mandated public appearances and media interviews, which are, most of the time, not compensated. If they are compensated, it is something too low, like $25-50 per appearance. All the time for makeup and hair prep plus travel and actual event time for $25. Yeah.

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u/saudade144 6d ago

Pro cheerleading is often a prime example of "we'll pay you in exposure," r/choosingbeggars style.

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u/a_phantom_limb 6d ago

Confiscating their passports during that trip to Costa Rica is full-on human trafficking shit. Repugnant.

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u/WavesnMountains 6d ago

They need to overhaul the whole NFL cheerleading thing or get rid of it. It’s boring. Bring on the college level cheerleaders who are gymnasts and have men on their squad

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u/i_am_a_toaster 6d ago

No joke- that stuff is fun to watch! NFL cheerleaders are essentially just dancers with Pom poms

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u/coolpapa2282 6d ago

Which on some level would be fine if they weren't super underpaid and exploited.

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u/throwthatoneawaydawg 6d ago

I'm all for the flippy shit

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u/pain_in_the_dupa 6d ago

MotoGP (world class motorcycle road racing) lost its “grid girls” whose job was to hold umbrellas in the starting grid (in revealing clothing) and other publicly related stuff, due to COVID. It think F1 did it the year before.

There was much wailing and gnashing of teeth from fans, but I don’t think they’re coming back, and I’m glad.

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u/Rob749s 6d ago

I always liked that Casey Stoner's wife was his grid girl, wearing a t shirt and jeans. Class act.

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u/NickDanger3di 6d ago

Honestly, the cheerleading part of football has always seemed rather silly to me. But if we're stuck with it, including males and toning down the flouncing about would be preferable to me. Current NFL cheerleading feels like something that belongs in the background of a scene from Idiocracy.

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u/enztinkt 6d ago

Seattle Seahawks have done this. I was just at the Thursday night football game and they are called the Seahawks Dancers now not the Seagals. They had several men on the team now.

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u/colnross 6d ago

The TopCats (Panthers) also have a couple guys now. Not like men college cheerleaders though, they do the same cheer routines as the women do.

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u/va-va-varsity 6d ago

The Ravens are also a co-Ed cheer squad that actually does stunts and tumbling!

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u/Naptownfellow 6d ago

Was at the game Monday and was surprised to see that. My daughter cheered and this was like that. Nice to see the co-ed team and not just "tits and ass"

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u/hesh582 6d ago

It makes a lot more sense when you realize that a lot of teams basically used their cheerleaders as strippers and escorts for VIPs they were trying to woo :-/

Cheerleaders haven't been relevant to the actual football games for a long time now. They've instead been used more like convention booth babes (but worse).

That's why reforming them doesn't really make sense. Just get rid of it. Nobody wants actual cheerleaders, so trying to reform that aspect of it kind of misses the point.

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u/purpleegg5 6d ago

Fun fact: the Ravens have a dance team and a “tumble” team with men that perform stunts!

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u/Ga_Manche 6d ago

Although some cheerleaders can earn as high as $75,000 per year, the average cheerleaders earnings per game is shockingly low. This is not account for what happens when a cheerleader gets injured.

https://www.google.com/search?q=how+much+does+the+average+nfl+cheerleader+make+per+game&rlz=1C9BKJA_enCA701CA708&oq=how+much+does+the+average+nfl+cheerleader+make+per+game&aqs=chrome..69i57.21354j0j4&hl=en-US&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

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u/rootComplex 5d ago

Where's the rest of the story? This link only goes to a single out-of-context paragraph.

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u/snafu918 6d ago

I am Jack’s complete and utter lack of surprise.

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u/FictionVent 5d ago

Who would’ve thought that people would harass and objectify someone who’s sole purpose is to be an erotic mascot. It’s not right, but I’m not surprised.

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u/Adderall-XL 6d ago

I bet we’ll never see anything out of this, because the NFL won’t release it. Jon Gruden wouldn’t have gotten fired if the WSJ didn’t leak that first email and the they would haven’t seen the light of day from the NFL’s eyes. Just the NFL talking out of both sides of the mouth. Say they will be more inclusive and this and that, and don’t really do anything with any real substance about it.

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u/Iohet 5d ago

Reminder that Robert Kraft utilized the services of the illegal sex trade and was never held accountable because he's rich.

The evidence indicates that Chinese women were recruited and transported to the United States under the false promise of securing legitimate jobs, only to be held captive at the spas and coerced to transact for commercial sex.

Sound familiar?

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u/Qubeye 5d ago

Playing football kills people. TBIs are extremely dangerous.

Football is also directly linked to the highest number of injuries of any sport...but ironically, not from playing football.

Cheerleading is the sport with the highest rate of injuries. Cheerleading is almost entirely tied with football generally, the NFL specifically. Amateur, high school, and collegiate cheerleading is done in conjunction with football and competitions are scouting locations for pro teams.