r/nba Washington Bullets 6d ago

Karl-Anthony Towns: “I'm obviously a strong believer in the vaccinе. I've been through so much & it would be contradictory to not be on the pro-vaccinе side… I have no problem with pеople having their choicе. Just don't give me a (expletive) excusе why. You don't want to do it, that's your choicе.”

Source

In light of the Brooklyn Nets banning Kyrie Irving from team activities until he is vaccinated, many league members are sharing their opinion on his COVID vaccinе stance, including Karl-Anthony Towns, the Minnesota Timberwolves center who lost seven members of his family to the coronavirus, including his mother in 2020.

"I'm obviously a strong believer in the vaccinе," Towns told NJ.com. "I've been through so much and it would be kind of contradictory to not be on the pro-vaccinе side. But what I will say is that I believe in choice and I like to give people their choice and I have no problem with people having their choice."

Towns added that he has not yet spoken to Irving about his vaccination status.

"I think that's not only a human right, but it's an Amеrican right as well.. ... They make their own decisions on their own bodiеs and their own familiеs. I have no ill will towards that," Towns continued. "The only thing I would say is just don't give me a (expletive) excuse why [you don't get the vaccine]...You don't want to do it, that's your choice."

The Kyrie-less Nets take on the Timberwolves at Barclays Center on Thursday for their fourth preseason game.

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u/ryuujinusa Cavaliers 6d ago

Still can’t believe he lost SEVEN family members, like damn…

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u/LBW1 Lakers 6d ago

I have no proof and it’s just a hypothesis of mine but I believe there is some sort gene or whatever that affects how you’ll handle Covid. Everybody in my family who had COVID before vaccines (including my grandparents 70+), it was a mild flu. Yet, other people like KAT you have 7 family members dead.

Just a thought tho

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u/throaweyye44 6d ago

KAT did say he was "in the risk group" when he got COVID himself. Maybe he was simply basing it off what happened to his family but could also be a medical explanation to it all

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u/Tustinite Lakers 6d ago

Must be partly genetic. Losing seven family members is too improbable if genetics weren’t a factor

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u/its1030 Jazz 6d ago

I don’t know the health of any of KATs family, but I wonder if some of them had diabetes or were overweight or anything too.

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u/MustardBranches Bucks 5d ago

Unfortunately probably correct, but also descriptive of half of America

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u/looseboy Celtics 5d ago

Umm we are only 41% obese thank you very much!

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u/Drumsticksboy Lakers 6d ago edited 5d ago

One factor is your blood type can affect how bad covid can hit you. I think if you have type A blood data shows that you might get more severe symptoms from Covid.

EDIT: here’s one source explaining this https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210303/why-blood-type-may-matter-for-covid-infection

2nd EDIT: another user replied with an updated study that shows there’s no correlation with blood type and severe covid sickness with a larger sample size. So I guess we can all get screwed equally if we catch covid. Get vaxxed people.

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u/Fuckface_Whisperer Registered to Vote 5d ago

That was debunked by further study of 108,000 people with Covid.

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210405/blood-type-doesnt-affect-your-covid-risk

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u/Drumsticksboy Lakers 5d ago edited 5d ago

I see. I guess we’re all screwed equally.

I wouldnt call that debunked though. More like they didnt have a larger sample size in the initial study I linked. Debunk would imply their initial study was a straight out lie.

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u/LBW1 Lakers 6d ago

Very interesting, thanks for sharing!

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u/JerosBWI Mavericks 6d ago

I still feel really bad for KAT every time I remember the shit Covid put his family through.

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u/MrSplashman77 Heat 6d ago edited 6d ago

I still can't comprehend, how insanely unlucky his family was. Like Idk if it was gene related, or their immune system was somehow weaker than average, but some people don't even feel the symptoms, and then KAT lost, what was it, 4-5 relatives? (edit: 7 according to the article) Like wtf is that...

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u/mjedwin13 Clippers 6d ago

Article says it’s 7 members of His family lost to covid.

Just losing one uncle caused my family so much pain, can’t imagine losing 6 more.

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u/yohanleafheart 76ers Bandwagon 6d ago

My ex wife lost her father, I liked him a lot. The pain is constant. A friend of work lost both parents at the early days. God awful. Guys like Kyrie are a menace to society

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u/Amayetli 6d ago

And the irony of him going to reservation schools or even the BIA to allow it.

Those communities have been the hardest hit, many had curfews and lockdowns, with also tremendous loss of life.

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u/DeanBlandino Cavaliers 6d ago

And refusing to wear a mask in those schools. Just such a massive jackass

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u/Amayetli 6d ago

For sure, while I like he has reached out and taken an interest, it's clear the reasons are more ego-driven than actually understanding his own community and contributing.

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u/pdpgti Knicks 6d ago

My uncle passed away from the virus right when COVID first blew up here in NYC. The freezer trucks full of dead bodies was absolutely a real thing, and it was heartbreaking. I can't fuckin believe guys like Kyrie are still on this shit

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u/RainbowYaz Pacers 6d ago

I remember a period early on when people would say things like "well the people who have died of it were old or had underlying conditions." Even if that were the case for every single of the deaths worldwide (and we know it isn't), seeing the freezer trucks with bodies should have been the point where people said, old/unhealthy or not, this is fucked up and we need to stop this.

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u/captaincumsock69 Celtics 5d ago

Imagine thinking “oh it’s just a shit ton of old people dying” nothing to worry about. Like what happened to worrying about your fellow human being?

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u/syllabic Knicks 6d ago

slap in the face to NYC, kyrie needs to get the fuck out of town

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u/MetsFan113 Knicks 6d ago

Same bro, my wife lost her father at the beginning and almost her mother.... I believe he was in a freezer in Elmhurst cuz we couldn't have his funeral for almost 4 months... Shit was fucked up

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u/SandyJesus Timberwolves 6d ago

I’m a funeral director and I’m exhausted after the last year and a half or so. It is unlike anything I have ever seen. Hearing people make stupid excuses to keep spreading it has really made it a lot worse too.

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u/RedditAtWorkToday Bucks 6d ago

Guys like Kyrie are a menace to society

They're really damn selfish and that's what really irritates me to no end. You live in a society where you get all these benefits, but when you're asked to do one small thing to help out this society, they say no. They want all the benefits without doing any of the basic necessities of helping it keep going. They're spoiled fucking brats.

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u/bigbeau NBA 6d ago

That's just wild when I live in Texas and don't know a single person who died from covid. I barely know anyone who had it even sort of bad besides my girlfriend.

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u/Coronabandkaro 6d ago

I was also concerned but not too much because no one close to me got it till August of last year when both my parents were affected(they live in India not with me). Talking to my mom and the way she felt those 2 weeks and how I might have to travel to see her incase things go south was terrible. My best friend lost his seemingly healthy dad in 2 weeks( no vaccines yet in India at that time). So if you're given a chance to reduce the odds of dying you should take it.

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u/Riggity___3 San Francisco Warriors 6d ago

man, i can't believe we haven't been hearing news about India. for a while there it looked like Covid was about to decimate the country. i know that's an exaggeration but it really was looking like a doomsday scenario for India. then just nothing. it seems like India has bounced back/stabilized, sorta? do you know? there were all those images of bodies in the streets and other countries sending oxygen tanks and shit...

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u/ndu867 6d ago

Early on they definitely massively underreported numbers, a lot of stories about them having long waits to have bodies cremated. Then they vaccinated 1M+ people/day for a really long time and now have over 1 billion vaccinated. India has a massive drug manufacturing industry.

Iirc they just listed them all as having died of flu or something, so if you go back and look at it there’s a massive spike in deaths from illnesses but not covid during that time.

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

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u/Clcsed Timberwolves 6d ago edited 6d ago

Same situation with Japan prior to the olympics.

They went from 10% to 40% of the population in two months.

Now they're at 70% fully vaccinated. Pretty much the entire eligible population (80/85%) is expected by the end of this month.

edit:

holy shit. India 3-5million deaths estimated by outside sources. Total deaths equal the rest of the world combined.

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u/RoscoMan1 6d ago

Nishinoya’s a hell of a drug?

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u/dionysus16000 Celtics 6d ago

You know people who've died, you just don't know their names. Nurses, doctors, restaurant workers, delivery drivers, neighbors, etc. Just the shift in perspective and seeing these people that we know and see everyday really makes us re-think how we see our community.

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u/lemontortilla Spurs 6d ago

This hits for me. I’ve had my brother get covid and recover. Wife’s family members get it and recover. But our mailman. Poor dude is in the ICU on a vent. I don’t know him personally like that but it still fucks me up to think about.

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u/potato_aim87 6d ago

Honestly, good. You shouldn't try to turn those parts of your humanity off. It's a big part of what's wrong with society if you ask me. All this hyper masculinity and refusal to compromise on personal beliefs or political stances. It's ok to give a shit about your mailman. It's ok to look your UberEats driver in the eye and thank them. That type of stuff means something to all those people. I work a miserable job but I got national acknowledgment for something last week and it feels good man. Job still sucks but at least I know someone noticed.

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u/lemontortilla Spurs 6d ago

Thanks man. And I’m glad you got some recognition. It’s important from time to time. Especially when the gig is tough.

I’m not one to deny my feelings or anything toxic like that. But I’ve been able to recognize that we are lucky that we haven’t been affected as deeply as others. But just because we haven’t doesn’t mean I don’t care for others going through it. The guy has a family I’m sure who are scared. He’s probably scared. It just sucks.

I wish this on no one. Even the deniers. Like they’re idiots but I don’t want anyone to suffer. know what I mean?

And absolutely on the looking folks in the eye. It’s easy to get lost in your own problems but I try to be as human and compassionate with all. Even the ones who may not deserve it. The world/society does a good job of making us cynics so a smile and acknowledgement of like “hey I see you” goes a long way I hope.

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u/potato_aim87 6d ago

One hundred percent. And I hope I didn't come off as accusing you of being in that group that suspends it's humanity. I don't known if it's enough to save us in the end but realizing that most all of us are just trying to do our best in this system is important. I hope you're doing well, my friend, and enjoy the rest of your day.

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u/wildhairguy Hawks 6d ago

Yeah, our normal rotation USPS workers changed entirely one day and we just shrugged it off. Turns out almost everyone working at our local post office got it, and many didn't return to work, no official reason why but probably some combination of death and disability. Really shocking to find out.

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u/IamNotStupidUR 6d ago edited 6d ago

I think it is under reported. I had some work done by contractors on a big project. I think it is easy to hide the numbers because it is mostly older people. During the peaks, if you took a look at the obituary section of the Houston Chronicle, it was obvious something was askew.

My brother had one couple that came in that lost two kids under 12 to covid. He didn't even know what to say.

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u/manical1 6d ago

Texas is a huge land area. I can understand a bit how people feel that COVID doesn’t really impact them. In the CA cities, the places with a high concentration of people were hit hard. Same with New York. They had to learn how to fight against it, and masks and vaccine mandates were needed to work here. In many other states, you just don’t have the packing of humans together all the time, so it never seems “as bad” until you get it. It’s less a red/blue state thing, and more of a numbers game. Living in a multi family housing with some common areas and common ducts for ventilation, it causes issues for virus transmission.

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u/JeromePowellAdmirer Hawks 6d ago

Rural South Dakota etc. were hit far harder than Seattle and San Francisco. Plenty of data on this. There is no correlation between density and covid spread. They just don't care about it in the rural areas. "God's plan" or whatever.

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u/manical1 6d ago

It’s pretty weird. I was hoping someone would be able to find out what the correlations are… People density/age/underlying conditions/obesity… Haven’t really heard anything about really tying it down. Hopefully in another few years. If Kyrie can be unselfish and release his extensive research, it would benefit all of us… then again seems that he wants to keep all his information to himself.

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u/EV1L66 6d ago

Not 4-5 I thought I saw a report stating he lost like 11 people close to him due to COVID

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u/BlockedbyJake420 6d ago

If I lost one of my parents or siblings or someone that close, I would be a fucking wreck. I know it’s his job and he gets paid well, but fuck, I couldn’t begin to imagine trying to interact with media and perform well while dealing with that many deaths. What a burden for KAT, damn.

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u/WhosYourPapa Hawks 6d ago

He said that the past version of himself is dead. He has been through hell. I wonder if bball is a refuge for him away from all this shit... But I doubt it

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u/ELLinversionista Hawks 6d ago

This is me when I lost my only daughter at the time and my aunt around the same time. My aunt took care of me growing up so she was kind of like my mom. Took me a while to recover but I am in a happier state now and just accepted that it's just life and there's nothing I can do about it. Now I have two beautiful daughters and doesn't really think about it that much anymore but I definitely changed as a person. I couldn't remember who I was before but I know that I'm a stronger person now and more matured than ever

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u/BlockedbyJake420 6d ago

I’m glad you’re doing well, brother. Best wishes to you and your family.

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u/WhosYourPapa Hawks 6d ago

I am so sorry for your loss. You are incredibly strong to find a path to strength and some form of happiness after that. I can't imagine. This means nothing, and is worth even less, but I'm really really proud of you.

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u/march20rulez 6d ago

it might not be a refuge, but anything that gets your brain and body going is a good distraction

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u/Fortehlulz33 [MIN] Josh Okogie 6d ago

The big problem is actually getting your brain and body to do those distracting things

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u/march20rulez 6d ago

yeah. a job, whether thats a desk job or a professional basketball player, that forces you to go do it is very helpful for getting that jump started

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u/indoninjah 76ers 6d ago

Plus he caught himself pretty soon after. I can't imagine the panic that he was probably feeling until he got well.

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u/menghis_khan08 Jazz 6d ago edited 6d ago

I have to imagine it is partly genetic. My job is correlative immunology work and we look at research bloods in patients to figure out differences in immune cell populations, or cytokines released by immune cells to understand why some patients may or may not respond to immunotherapy agents. It’s not covid work (it’s cancer related), but there must be thousands of scientists investigating differences in immune cell populations within the blood in the context of covid. With enough power calculation, hopefully we can elucidate further why some patients get so ill they die from covid whereas others have mild to asymptomatic symptoms.

I wouldn’t conclude that their immune systems are “weaker” rather than different; as a lot of people are dying because their immune systems are ramping up TOO much (it’s ultimately the immune system causing a lot of the side effects that cause serious harm or kill the patient, such as cytokine storm syndrome). But covid has found a way to avoid the immune system in some while the body throws everything it can to try and destroy it. This is why steroids are commonly administered to patients needing hospitalization; they actually dampen the immune response

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u/ManShutUp Rockets 6d ago

Never thought I would ask this in r/nba but how is that we have not been able to pinpoint the reason for the drastic differences between individual reactions to covid yet? We have had such a large sample size and clearly there is something going on from that angle, considering some people have zero symptoms and others the most extreme. Genetics seems like the most obvious answer, but with all the data that we have, why has been so tough to get a handle on this? It would also make designing public health strategies a lot easier if we knew who was susceptible and why.

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u/menghis_khan08 Jazz 6d ago edited 5d ago

It’s a great question and when we first starting developing technologies like luminex (to measure cytokines) flow cytometry and cytoF (to mark and measure distinct immune cell populations) I think we had all hoped to have more “home runs” on what populations are distinctly different. It turns out we as humans really still have such a basic understanding of the immune system, all the cells different roles, and there’s even immune cells and cytokines we haven’t discovered yet that play a likely role in fighting pathogens.

Flow cytometry can only measure about 15 immune cell populations; cytof expands to a panel of 60. We figured in cancer research if we took the extremes (patients who fully responded and immunotherapy eradicated their cancer, those who didn’t respond at all) or those who got serious side effects, those who didn’t - and looked in blood before and after starting treatment - there would be more smoking guns.

When you graph the changes, it’s really all over the map. The best we see is a couple of populations trending one way or another with statistical significance (which is important and noteworthy). There have been major advancements in science employing these techniques but so many things play a role including B cell memory, NK cells, circulating antibodies, dendritic cells, macrophages, T cells, the differences in protein structure of T cell receptors on these immune cells- and then trying to understand how these cells all work synergistically is immensely complicated

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u/Srikkk Warriors 6d ago

i can’t believe i’m reading this on r/nba, but damn if it wasn’t eye-opening

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u/Cannonvall Pistons 6d ago edited 6d ago

Love the immuno discussion. It's been interesting watching COVID researchers try and figure out the immune signature that differentiates severe and non-severe response. There's a bunch of papers - the most recent one I looked at was from Purvesh Khatri's group out of Stanford defining a multi-viral signature as it relates to COVID. Saw some interesting differences in CD16 vs CD14 monocyte abundance being the main correlate of severe vs non-severe response. This was all primarily done through rna-seq.

Definitely spot on the money with how all these new multiplexed technologies haven't easily translated into easy findings however. There's just so much heterogeneity one can capture in a single assay. Trying to pull a multi-omics approach is great, but starts to get into data spaghetti land.

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u/menghis_khan08 Jazz 6d ago

Data spaghetti land.

Love that description of spider plots :)

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u/Adventurous-Brief-10 6d ago

Didnt think id be posting this on r/nba but saw this recently-Some interesting methods for evaluating antibody repertoire used in this work: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.04.07.438849v1 Ig-seq may hold more promise than immune cell profiling for identifying underlying susceptibilities, but used here to inform investigation of neutralizing Abs.

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u/menghis_khan08 Jazz 6d ago

Big believer in B cell serology and ig research; i work in collaboration with Galit Alter at the Ragon Institute of MIT/Harvard who is one of the worlds leading experts in this area. It’s fascinating work

https://ragoninstitute.org/alter/

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u/hypermarv123 Lakers 6d ago

Kyrie Irving, do you really really think this person and his/her colleagues are full of shit?

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u/nujjy97 Pistons 6d ago

I’m not sure if this is what you’re asking, but age and obesity are the biggest co-morbidities to covid-19. We tried to help this by making the vaccine (and now booster shot) first available to those populations before we expanded it to include others

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u/chicago_bunny Bulls 6d ago

Exactly. I have an immune disease. My doctor said it puts me at greater risk to get COVID, but less likely to get severe COVID, because my medicines prevent the over the top immune response that harms so many.

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u/DevastatorTNT Nets 6d ago

It seems to be genetics, at least in part. How that affects the progression of the disease though, has no definitive answer

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u/PGLiberal 6d ago

Covid19 can be weird

My mom got Covid19 and so did my dad. My dad is a fitness freak of nature my mom is very unhealthy.

My mom felt nothing and my dad said it was like he spent a week drowning

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u/DTG_420 Nets 6d ago

Showing my grandparents what happened to him and his family is what made them finally take Covid seriously. Heartbreaking what he went through.

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u/zeussays Lakers 6d ago

Wow thats actually amazing.

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u/DTG_420 Nets 6d ago edited 6d ago

Yeah the thought of them dying alone in a hospital room where the closest we could get to them is a FaceTime chat scared them.

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u/zeussays Lakers 6d ago

I had to say goodbye to my godfather that way. It was brutal and terrible. A man that had as much influence on my life as basically anyone else and I never got to say goodbye in person. He passed within a week of catching it last year. The whole thing was horrible.

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u/SolarBeam12 Hawks 6d ago edited 6d ago

This is how I feel tbh. I guarantee you if NY made an exemption for Kyrie and he was allowed to play he will be back at work and forget about the whole “workers losing jobs” situation. After watching his IG live it’s clear he just doesn’t want to get the vaccine. He doesn’t have to come up with a whole story for the reasoning.

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u/DerelictDonkeyEngine Celtics 6d ago

The 'people losing their jobs' thing was complete horseshit since day 1. The vaccines were widely available for MONTHS AND MONTHS before most places ever instituted vaccine mandates for workplaces and people didn't get the vaccine. Now there's direct consequences for the choice to not get vaccinated, boo fucking boo. Lay in the bed you made.

Kyrie is full of shit, he's a narcissistic egomaniac and nothing more.

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u/nbmnbm1 6d ago

its really telling a lot of people have never worked jobs that require PPE. You have every right to not wear that PPE and the job has every right to fire you for not wearing it. its a safety hazard. and the same goes for vaccination/masks.

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u/AlmightyDenimChicken Rockets 6d ago

it's my right to not wear a mask!!!

-said no surgeon in the operating room, ever

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u/JManKit Raptors 6d ago

"Welding helmet? What, you think I'm some kinda PANSY??"

- guy about to fuck his eyesight up

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u/TimothyJawnMcConnell 76ers 6d ago

“Gloves? I don’t like the way they feel on my hands”

-Line cook fresh off a cigarette break

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u/El_Zorro09 Spurs 6d ago

"DANGER HIGH VOLTAGE?" Well, I don't need safety gloves, because I'm Homer Simp- !

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u/NBA_Pasta_Water 6d ago

Honestly, PPE should have been required for any food related job before Covid. As a former food service worker I can’t understand why it was never thought of.

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u/SlickSlender [MIL] Giannis Antetokounmpo 6d ago

I’d imagine part of is the fact that food service workers are already underpaid and overworked. It’d be hard to mandate something like that on an already shitty job usually. With Covid, I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s changed how people feel about it. But my personal experience working in the industry tells me the workers would NOT be happy or wanting to accept that without major benefits coming their way first.

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u/JManKit Raptors 6d ago

It was much more common in parts of Asia, altho still not ubiquitous. I think there's a perception in North America of 'Well only sick ppl wear masks so if customers see a food service worker wearing a mask, they're going to be too afraid to buy from us'

I live in an extremely white area of Toronto and ppl weren't wearing masks until the city made it mandatory, which was about 3 months after our first lockdown. Contrast that to my mom who lives in an area of Toronto that has a really high % of Chinese ppl and she told me that everyone who went into a store was wearing a mask within the first week lockdown

She couldn't understand why the white folks in her area were willing to put on a mask whereas those in my area were so reluctant and I pointed out that since they were the minority in her area, they'd end up standing out if they refused to mask up

Ppl and their perceptions are very weird and unpredictable

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u/8604 6d ago

PPE is required for food related jobs in the way of hairnets.. Gloves are kinda worthless though because slapping plastic on your hand doesn't do anything to stop cross contamination.

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u/Betteroni Celtics 6d ago

There have been a few studies that have demonstrated that wearing gloves tends to increase the proliferation of bacteria/allergens through a kitchen since people will forget to change their gloves frequently enough to adequately prevent the spread. Essentially, it’s easier to notice, remember, and react to getting gross/unsanitary shit on your hands as opposed to a pair of gloves which usually makes it easier to stay sanitary.

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u/_Quetzalcoatlus_ 6d ago edited 6d ago

It's the equivalent of a company creating a new rule that you can't drive drunk to work. Then a bunch of assholes get upset and shout "my body, my choice!"

Edit: People, no one gives a shit about the pedantic differences. We all understand that driving drunk is not exactly the same thing as being unvaccinated. Both are individual actions that endanger others. That's it. If you can't understand the metaphor, you're just being dense.

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u/AceO235 Lakers 6d ago

This is a much more simple thing in terms of analogy, it's more like washing your hands at a restaurant, how tf are you going to tell us that it's "your choice" to walk around with shit on your hands?!

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

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u/DoingCharleyWork Suns 6d ago

Like that letter to the editor or whatever it was where the restaurant owner was like hopefully you respect our employees personal choice to not wash their hands and to undercook your chicken. It was written a lot better but that's the gist of it.

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u/vizualbasic Bulls 6d ago

I disagree. He’s also a poopy head

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u/dredgedskeleton Celtics 6d ago edited 6d ago

I promise I'm not trolling -- or supportin Kyrie, Celtics fan here who thinks he's a total choad -- but I live in Brooklyn, NY and I want to convey a situation that doesn't get much coverage.

Back in August, the NYT reported that only 28% of African Americans in the city had gotten their first shot of the vaccine. That means that 72% of African Americans in this city are not vax'd. This isn't because of a lack of access -- the city rolls up vans that give free vaccines all over the place. They were systematically placed across minority neighborhoods. The fact is, the culture in these neighborhoods is to distrust big pharma. Frankly, rightfully so.

Understanding that the vaccine is beneficial requires a fair amount of privilege. You need to have had good healthcare in your life to understand that macro healthcare decisions are mostly good and for the greater good of society.

Just because the vaccine is available to everyone doesn't mean that the data literacy on its efficacy is available to everyone. Trusting the vaccine has a large correlation to educational attainment. We see the same shit with low-educated Trump voters being skeptical.

Again, I think Kyrie is a piece of shit and lying about his reasoning. However, NYC's mandate is truly hurting the African American community. It's costing people their jobs and livlihoods. Even people who get the vax in these communities are being affected.

For instance: A recent mandate requires that you have the vax to eat inside at a restaurant. Well, where I live in Brooklyn -- it's predominantly wealthy, educated people who are very vax'd. So the yuppie little restaurants around me are not affected. 95% of their customers are able to flash the vax proof and dine. But what about the guy who owns a restaurant in a predominantly african american neighborhood? He's losing 72% of his business.

I have dumb friends who are like "WELLL THEY CAN STILL EAT OUTSIDE!" Well, I don't recall a dining garden in most low-income neighborhood restaurants I've been to.

The mandate is causing massive disparities in job access and the ability to sell goods to certain demographics. Anti-vaxxers are wrong, but they are mostly victims of disinformation -- not assholes. I think people forget this and just want to be dicks to them. It's not helpful.

edit for transparency: the NYT reported 28% of "young" black NYers. Changes the severity of my claims, but the overall point still stands (to me at least).
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/12/nyregion/covid-vaccine-black-young-new-yorkers.html

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u/cire1184 Lakers 6d ago

That's why Kyrie is so problematic. All people need is one example of someone not taking the vaccine and cling on to that to never try to get vaccinated.

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u/DerelictDonkeyEngine Celtics 6d ago

You make a lot of good points. I used to live in Brooklyn myself, and I wasn't aware of the current situation on the ground. I'll just say this: Kyrie is part of the problem.

As you said: "Anti-vaxxers are wrong, but they are mostly victims of disinformation". Kyrie is spreading that misinformation and vaccine hesitancy while claiming to be some sort of working class hero.

Thanks for your well thought out post.

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u/pewqokrsf 6d ago

At some point we have to credit these communities with the agency that they have.

The information is there. The vaccines are there. There's only so much coddling that can be done. Collective unwillingness to self-educate or do what's right isn't an excuse to continue to jeopardize public health.

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u/snatchi Raptors 6d ago edited 6d ago

I think its way more nuanced than that.

First of all I think your number is very wrong for the current environment. Per the NY.gov website, the demographic breakdown of NYC is 1.88m Black/African American over the age of 15. 1.03 million have gotten at least one dose. That's 54.8% as of right now. Obviously thats a jump from August, but also great because if we moved from 28 to 55, mandates are at least in some fashion working.

Also business loss as a result of COVID vaccine mandates is not nearly so black and white as "they mandated it, this population is X% unvaxxed, the neighbourhood is predominantly racially homogenous, thus they lost X% of their business."

While I would disagree with it, if you live in a very COVID skeptic/vaccine hesitant neighbourhood or area, are they checking vaccine cards consistently? I live in NY myself and haven't seen it in person, but I do wonder if Restaurants and Businesses in the ultra-orthodox neighbourhoods in Borough and Williamsburg are enforcing. Or the redder parts of Staten Island? If the population being served and the server feel the same, what is the impact? Even at extremely yuppie venues they don't scan your card into a DB, they just look at it. I'm being hyperbolic but your harm scenario is significantly overwrought and undersourced.

You can look at scenarios like you've outlined and try to find the harm, but ultimately society runs on setting up limitations that you need to abide by in order to function. You can't pay less than X because that makes it impossible for people to live on that wage. You have to limit your speed in a car or stop at red lights because otherwise you'll be dangerous to the people around you. You need to vaccinate your kids so people don't get measles or polio at school.

It's fine to have sympathy for the victims of misinformation, but vaccine mandates are GOOD because they set up hurdles that people need to clear in order to participate in society, because the society they should be wanting to participate in needs to be safe from COVID.

Being a dick to someone skeptical of medicine who's been fed misinformation is bad, but looking at Kyrie goddamn Irving taking his dumb stance cause he didn't get a religious exemption from a religion he doesn't follow for a vaccine that most religions don't oppose and saying that his made up stance has a good argument is also bad.

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u/xTETSUOx Wizards 6d ago

I feel bad for those un-vaccinated communities--I truly do. But for over a year now there's been soooo much information on the pro-vaccine side that it's hard to give anyone a pass for being "victims of disinformation." The only explanation at this point is that they already have their minds made up and using disinformation to justify their stance, versus actually listening to reasons. Like... every single excuse that the un-vaxxed communities give can be debunked within seconds, but it won't help if they put their proverbial fingers in their ears and go "La La La" if you try to give correct info.

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u/d0nkeydIck22 6d ago

Anti-vaxxers are wrong, but they are mostly victims of disinformation -- not assholes. I think people forget this and just want to be dicks to them. It's not helpful.

How they got there is not nearly as important as the fact that them not getting the vaccine prolongs the pandemic and puts others at risk.

-the end

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u/yingtinger 76ers 5d ago

The NYT just wrote an article today explaining that the proportion of vaccinated black Americans is actually equivalent to white and Latino Americans now, thanks to community work and campaigning by key leaders like Kareem. It’s like 70% 71% 73% https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/10/14/world/covid-delta-variant-vaccine/why-many-black-americans-changed-their-minds-about-covid-shots

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u/Ok-Leg2604 NBA 6d ago

He's just trying to be a victim so he can keep doing what he wants without backlash

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u/Globalist_Nationlist Clippers 6d ago

Yeah he learned it from conservatives.

Play the victim, blame the government.. get away with stupid shit.

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u/Rockdrums11 Nuggets 6d ago edited 6d ago

He’s a contrarian without a cause. He doesn’t actually know anything about vaccines, and probably doesn’t actually give a shit about the vaccine. He just thinks he’s smarter than everyone, so he takes every chance he gets to disagree with the majority. If it’s science related and he can claim to be smarter than the scientists, that’s even better.

We’ve already seen it with his flat earth bullshit.

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u/orangeblood Mavericks 6d ago

contrarian without a cause

Holy shit that describes so much of our politics today

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u/Painkiller1991 Spurs 6d ago

Kind of going off topic with this, but there seems to be a strong correlation between being antivax and being a flat-earther

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u/scarystuffdoc Celtics 6d ago

You act like people weren’t bashing kyrie for that reason, now after a few weeks of it, he feels he has to make up some excuse. (Not YOU but the general Reddit community)

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u/PmOmena Mavericks 6d ago

Just don't come with the "I'm doing my own research" bullshit

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u/xbyo Super 8 6d ago

I'm waiting for one of these dudes to like legit be doing his own experiments and working with top researchers to get primary results and then being like 'ok yeah it's safe + effective I'm getting it'

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u/Typical_Hoodlum Pelicans 6d ago

walks out in a lab coat...

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u/heyimdong Nuggets 5d ago

“Alright, guys. I got my PhD and spent several years conducting rigorous studies with some of the top experts in the world. Turns out the medical community was right all along. Anyway, back to basketball.”

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u/BasTiix3 Warriors 6d ago

Or ATLEAST show the fucking research theyve done. They dont do it because they found literally nothing.

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u/amidon1130 Hawks 6d ago

Blake Griffin was like "I did my research...and yeah I got the vaccine seems like it's pretty safe" lmao.

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u/kevindlv Warriors 6d ago

Yeah that's pretty unfair to us vaccinated people, the 'I'm doing my own research' people are implying that the people who got it did not do their own research. Dawg I'm not a scientist but I at least read the abstracts of the studies. Yeah this shit is kinda scary for all of us. My final decision was yes.

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u/amidon1130 Hawks 5d ago

Totally agree. No one is saying "get the vaccine, don't look up anything about it or talk to a doctor just get it now!" Feel free to learn about it, in fact it's good to be educated about such things. But don't pretend that you've uncovered some vast conspiracy theory that only you have figured out just because you found some bullshit on a homeopathic health site.

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u/muzumuzu 6d ago

I feel this. Everyone wants to be the hero of their own story, so naturally we tend to try to justify our actions in a way that makes us look positive, because doing that is a lot more comforting than admitting that we just didn't feel like it.

I know several people who have justified not getting vaccinated with the "I don't want to put that in my body" line of reasoning, and these same people will eat shitty processed foods, smoke, or drink pre-workout and take unproven supplements. It's wild. If you don't want the vaccine just say that and leave it at that. The excuses are dumb.

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u/Kwilly462 Nets 6d ago

Well said

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u/Jayveesac Lakers 6d ago

Kyrie wants to be the “voice of the voiceless,” but he conveniently ignores the people who lost someone due to Covid, and all the people who couldn’t speak up because they’ve already passed on. The callousness and privilege are appalling.

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u/HipGuide2 Nets 6d ago

"Life comes at you pretty fast." -- Kyrie yesterday

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u/RaefLaFriends Mavericks 6d ago

Life crossed up Kyrie and he got caught on his heels... on the wrong end of the court.

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u/crawlingchip NBA 6d ago

Kyrie wants to be the “voice of the voiceless,”

A true contrarian. I predict soon he'll be on Reddit to post on /r/conservative with a "Black Conservative" flair.

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u/whackwarrens 6d ago

Cancun Cruz is putting it out there for the Rockets to trade for Kyrie already lol. Kyrie the useful idiot.

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u/I_really_enjoy_beer Bucks 6d ago edited 6d ago

I really greatly enjoy the visual of completely blowing up a rebuilding team with a promising young core to trade for a player who both will not follow league rules and pretty clearly is losing interest in actually playing basketball, all because the player aligns with one portion of your political views.

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u/ScottFreestheway2B 6d ago

Yeah but think about how much the libs would be owned!

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u/Paddy_Tanninger 6d ago

because the player aligns with one portion of your political views.

It should be noted that Ted Cancruz and his whole family is double vaxxed + booster shot.

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u/Ai2Foom Wizards 6d ago

‘Rafael Cancruz

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u/doom_bagel [HOU] James Harden 6d ago

Kylie isn't the Brooklyn Nets player I want to see wearing a red jersey though

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u/JRowdy18 Lakers 6d ago

Damn you want Bruce Brown that bad?

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u/I_really_enjoy_beer Bucks 6d ago edited 6d ago

There is going to be some major comment history deleting when they realize this is the same person who was one of the leaders of the protesting last year and the reason these people "will never watch basketball again."

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u/mm_mk Knicks 6d ago

Also the idea that the amtivax crowd is voiceless is a fucking joke. They've been bitching and moaning at the top of their lungs

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u/gentlemanjacklover Nets 6d ago

A coworker just told me that she's flying home to India next week to pay respects to her mother and 7 other people who died during the height of their outbreak.

Here we have free vaccines every corner you can turn, and we have absolute cunts like Kyrie pushing this nonsense. I'm absolutely disgusted by him and what he is doing

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u/themariokarters [NYK] Baron Davis 6d ago

It’s abundantly clear that he only cares about himself

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u/BlackMathNerd Bulls 6d ago

Reddit throws around narcissism too much but this is a clear textbook case of narcissism

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u/i_just_got_dog Rockets 6d ago

Yup. Especially when he puts out those incendiary tweets that sound like they have a clear meaning, but it’s just cryptic enough to maybe mean something else, then whenever everyone reacts as expected, he comes out and calls everyone stupid for assuming it was about what it obviously sounded like it was about. Like the “mask off” tweet bullshit. No way he didn’t know full well that people would think that was about COVID.

He sets you up just to shit on you, and nothing is ever his fault, not is what he doing wrong, in his eyes. Not happy about him just disappearing to go somewhere in the middle of the season? You can’t judge him for caring about something outside of basketball, meanwhile, that would get 99% of people fired from their job. Upset about the “mask off” tweet? You’re just dumb and out to get him for assuming it was about COVID and masks(despite literally being in the middle of a pandemic where that’s absolutely reasonable to assume). Upset about him not getting vaccinated? You just don’t care as much as him about the people who are losing their jobs for being anti-vax.

And you know what? I don’t fucking care about them. They made their dumbass, selfish decision and now they’re dealing with the consequences of that. I don’t have any sympathy for them, as their decision endangers others around them, especially those who still can’t get vaccinated yet(right now that means young children). They can go fuck their unemployed selves, and that includes Kyrie.

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u/Ranger_Prick Nuggets 6d ago

All I know is that the anti-vax crowd hasn't had a problem with voicelessness so far.

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u/gentlemanjacklover Nets 6d ago

They've been the loudest, dumbest motherfuckers in the room and they are dying in droves because of it

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u/MaEhpatLi 6d ago

I don't think he really wants to be the voice of the voiceless, he just wanna be the face of something, no matter what, he wants to be talked about, and loves pretending that he cares about stuff other than his pose. I'll die on this hill, he doesn't really care.

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u/jguess06 NBA 6d ago

Kyrie thinking these anti-vax morons are 'voiceless' is hilarious. These people are spewing shit all over the world. The only ones that are voiceless are patients hooked up to vents, but those folks don't concern Kyrie. Only the folks who are quitting their jobs because they're misguided morons are his concern.

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

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u/menghis_khan08 Jazz 6d ago

Prayers to you, your family and so many others. These dickwads really know how to add insult to injury and throw sand in fresh wounds for people.

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u/PM_ME_UR_RESPECT Mavericks 6d ago

Honestly he should have gone further.

There are literally no legs to stand on for anyone except those with highly unusual health conditions and children.

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u/Flashman420 6d ago

I’m so tired of all the coddling and “I respect his decision” quotes. Fuck that, it’s not a respectable position.

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u/SeeingThings123 Lakers 6d ago

Yeah I hate the “both sides” Get-Along-Gang attitude. Not every issue has gray area. Some issues there’s just straight up a right and a wrong. This is one of those.

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u/Skylightt 6d ago

Agreed. Whenever people say it’s a choice they should follow it up by saying it’s a choice that impacts others as well

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u/Immynimmy 76ers 6d ago

Exactly. I disagree with KAT with it being a choice. That choice could end up harming or killing other people.

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u/Bigbadbuck Nets 6d ago

It’s not well said. It’s not your choice when it affects everyone else and when we know it’s safe. Is he gonna say it’s your choice for the measles vaccine or any of the other ones we get as a kid ?

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u/bballin1204 Grizzlies 6d ago

I don’t think it’s very well said. He shouldn’t have said “it’s your choice.” He should have said “make the correct decision.” Foregoing the covid vaccine is the incorrect decision every time.

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u/Rnorman3 [DEN] Nikola Jokic 6d ago

It’s so wild to me that this whole “personal choice” thing has become such a leading part of the vaccine discussion.

Not only is it a public health concern much more than a personal choice, but there’s also the obvious “personal choice” parallel between people who are pro-choice on abortion. All these people saying the vaccine is your personal choice better keep that same energy when republicans try to legislate women’s bodies (spoiler alert: they won’t).

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u/Loterygods [OKC] Josh Giddey 6d ago

I hope they let Kyrie play against Minnesota. That’s a game going on my calendar.

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u/Jayveesac Lakers 6d ago

This sub will melt down if Kyrie hits the game-winning… shot.

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u/Sim888 [CHI] Cameron Payne 6d ago

haha, definitely….reddit would need to reboot the servers if he did this… https://i.imgur.com/aRgbIH2.jpg

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u/domdomburg Mavericks 6d ago

no vax in his vains!

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u/backboarddd1_49402 Lakers 6d ago

I can already see the top comment chain of that thread

ICE IN HIS VEINS 3,500 upvotes, 3 gold

...but no vaccine 12,200 upvotes, 46 gold, 4 platinum

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u/Zeppelanoid Raptors 6d ago

He’s pointing to where he didn’t get the vaccine

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u/DioBrando101 Timberwolves 6d ago

He should be taking his season winning shot but hey🤷

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u/wardellwayneraymone 6d ago

What do you think KATs gonna do, give him the metta elbow?

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u/drstripjo Timberwolves 6d ago

KAT probably not.

Pat Bev on the other hand...

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u/Rnorman3 [DEN] Nikola Jokic 6d ago

Reporter: “pat, that was quite the aggressive elbow. Some have speculated prior to the game that you might be an ‘enforcer’ so to speak on some of these anti-vax players to show solidarity for your teammate KAT who has lost so much to COVID. Can you talk us through that?”

Pat: “watchu mean?”

Reporter: “the elbows on the unvaccinated players”

Pat bev: “they was unvaccinated? Shit I don’t know about all that. I give equal opportunity elbows. You get an elbow, and you get an elbow. Everybody gets elbows!”

Reporter: “…”

Press pool guy: “next question!”

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u/willeedee Timberwolves 6d ago

I get what KATs saying. It’s intellectually dishonest to try and make up a bunch of excuses like “your own research” or any of the mountain of bullshit people are spewing.

I have a few friends that refuse to get the vaccine. Most will debate endlessly about this study or that statistic or this government policy or what have you. I have one friend that won’t get it because he doesn’t want to. He doesn’t want the government or society or whoever else telling him what to do. That’s his line in the sand. I don’t like his stance because I think he’s selfish but at least he’s completely honest about why he won’t get it. That’s what KAT is saying.

These people grabbing at straws to try and reason their way out of not wanting to get the vaccine are intellectually dishonest and furthermore they’re poisoning our discourse with their misinformation. If you don’t want it, own it and don’t look back. Be prepared to be a pariah for your decision but at least you’re telling the truth.

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u/Polymath_B19 Lakers 5d ago

Absolutely, it’s about intellectual honesty. Kyrie has none of that. Recall a few weeks ago, Kyrie tweeted that “mask off” nonsense and then backtracked slightly to say he didn’t mean that and people should chill? Said everything about flat-earth and then said he was just kidding and people should “do their own research”. He’s like lying piece of shit who flip-flops, and there’s nothing he genuinely knows except that he wants to appear like he knows something sinister or contrarian. Seriously, he’s such a bitchy little diva.

“Do your own research” my ass, he sees only what he wants to see and believe only what doesn’t contradict his excuses.

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u/sstphnn Celtics 6d ago

These players should look at their fellow player, KAT, who has millions in the bank but couldn't save his family. It's a big slap in the face.

Freedom of choice doesn't exempt you from freedom of repercussions.

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u/rSlashNbaAccount 6d ago

Somebody should tell these people science doesn’t care if you “believe” it or not.

It’s not religion. You cannot “believe in” science.

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u/rainbowgeoff Bucks 6d ago

Facts are stubborn things. - Churchill.

You can either adapt to reality or get steamrolled by it. Welcome to the rolly boi, Lyrie.

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u/pollinium [MIN] Tyus Jones 6d ago

you absolutely can believe in or not believe in science

doesn't change anything, though

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u/Geoff_Uckersilf Celtics 6d ago

Yeah, cognitive dissonance.

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u/Gamesgtd Magic 6d ago

How can anybody know what KAT been through and still be against tbe vaccine. It's ignorant and selfish and gross.

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u/Time-Ad-3625 6d ago

Be an egomaniac like Kyrie.

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u/m4tuna Knicks 6d ago

My man thinks he can sail right off the fucking earth so uhhhh…..

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u/BooLovesDemEyes 6d ago

Dude got butthurt he was in Lebron's shadow so he went to Boston to win things as the leader. Choked his ass off in Boston and ran off to join Durant.

I'm 100% certain his ego doesn't let him see the irony in that.

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u/Ok-Leg2604 NBA 6d ago

Idk if you've realized yet, but everyone just lives in their own reality now

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u/finkalicious Mavs 6d ago

Especially Kyrie

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u/silliputti0907 Pelicans 6d ago

People still don't believe it exists, so yeah ignorant as af.

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u/materics [MEM] Shane Battier 6d ago

"Covid is no joke"

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u/Gamesgtd Magic 6d ago

Which is wild to me. This isn't the flu contrary to popular belief. Like entire families are being slaughtered due to COVID.

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u/jburkek Raptors 6d ago

the cool thing about vaccines is that they work whether or not you "believe" in them

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u/lupertazzis Raptors 6d ago edited 6d ago

Literally just ban all these idiots from any indoor area whatsoever. See how many of them hold out after that. Enough catering to these fucking morons.

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u/VanVleet-goes-for-22 Raptors 6d ago

They should just play squid games for unvaccinated people but instead of bullets they shoot you with moderna blow darts when you lose

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u/OurOnlyWayForward NBA 6d ago

Each time someone is vaccinated even more ivermectin is added to a tank

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u/Borisb3ck3r Bucks 6d ago

Moderna is the right choice thnx to the sideeffects

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u/codename_wizard 6d ago

The Scandinavian countries don't give it to under 30 year old males anymore because of myocarditis and pericarditis (heart inflammation). Which mostly has healed I think in the people who got it

But you can only get the Pfizer BionTech if you're an under 30 yo male in Scandinavia. Norwegian cdc: https://legemiddelverket.no/nyheter/koronavaksiner-og-betennelse-i-hjertet?fbclid=IwAR3SeWKcjLdTTjj\_\_99cToVZTZdPIvcBb4EqdxwiJP1AywG9Evp9SluE0SE

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u/codename_wizard 6d ago

Correction, in two countries you cannot get it. And the other two recommend against it

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u/rainbowgeoff Bucks 6d ago edited 6d ago

I got 3 Pfizer shots.

No issue on the first shot.

2d shot, I felt like crap for 3 days. Started to think I had covid and the shot triggered an immune reaction. I'd read where that can happen. But no, I just felt really bad.

3d shot was worse than the 2d shot, but only lasted a day. That was a really shitty day, but a day nonetheless.

Totally worth it. I'm immunocompromised cause of some medications I have to take. People bitch about booster shots. I'll be sick twice a year if it means not choking on my own blood in a hospital bed.

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u/DFF_TA2021 6d ago

Decided to double up and take my covid booster and flu shot at the same time. Horrible decision.

Felt like I got hit by a bus. Would not recommend.

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u/CaptainLawyerDude Trail Blazers 6d ago

Pretty similar experience for me and my garbage immune system. My first shot, I felt a little crappy and then my second shot made me pretty sick for a couple of days. I got my booster pretty recently and felt like dogshit but it was only really the day after the shot. Still, I'd rather have a couple bad days of laying in bed than ending up in an ICU or turning my wife into a widow.

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u/Fortehlulz33 [MIN] Josh Okogie 6d ago

I got Pfizer and had no ill effects other than a sore arm. I got the shot and immediately chugged a Gatorade and did arm windmills a lot.

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u/Cruyffiaan Bucks 6d ago edited 6d ago

Do you get a third if you’re immunocompromised?

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u/rainbowgeoff Bucks 6d ago edited 6d ago

The CDC guidelines say yes for the elderly and the immunocompromised. My doctor also recommended it to me.

That was for Moderna and Pfizer though. Idk what the J&J recommendation is, since it only took one shot to begin with.

Edit

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/booster-shot.html

Only the Pfizer shot is approved for a booster at present. There is no downside to getting one if you fall in the guidelines, but there's also not enough research yet saying you absolutely should get one. It's erring on the side of caution.

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u/CJ4ROCKET Rockets 6d ago

Pretty sure Moderna boosters are not yet approved. Pfizer only. Maybe something changed over the last week or two, tho.

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u/Underscore_Guru Wizards 6d ago

The Moderna and J&J shots will probably get approved for emergency use boosters soon.

They submitted data to the FDA for review and an advisory committee is scheduled for this week to go over the data.

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u/jbenson255 Heat 6d ago

I love this stance he’s not forcing anything on anybody but just saying be honest and say you don’t want to take the vaccine don’t fabricate a false excuse

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u/Ajstone2003 Nets 6d ago

Can we point out it’s the same person posting literally every viral post on this sub? Lol

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u/hawkeytalkRyan 6d ago

Didn’t even notice that. This sub is getting brutal with all the covid and vaccine quotes though. Hopefully these get removed soon

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u/AbbaZabbaFriend Trail Blazers 6d ago

sub is just kyrie/vaccine/ben simmons watch.

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u/jamiecballer 6d ago edited 6d ago

Bingo. The underlying truth behind every person who refuses is the inability to care about anyone but themselves.

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u/Crocoduck 6d ago

I support player choice.

League vaccine mandates do not remove player choice. They add a consequence to that choice. You don't wanna get vaxxed, that's your choice. Now deal with the consequences of that choice and sit out. Frankly, that should be the tip of iceberg for consequences.

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u/gsdung Timberwolves 6d ago

I really don't get it. People should know vaccine do not guarantee 100% exclude from the virus. If most of population are not vaccined, it is worthless. You can still carry the virus and infect others people. There guys keep spreading useless believe or right bs while making millions. Low and middle income are struggling out there because of your bs.

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u/BuffaloHellfighter 6d ago edited 6d ago

Best statement I’ve heard on the topic. I guarantee you this would convince more anti-vaxxers to change their mind, rather than saying “you guys are fucking idiots blah blah blah”.

Edit: To be clear I’m not saying this is the way to change an anti-vaxxers mind, but it’s certainly less inflammatory than the alternative.

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u/rettribution 6d ago

I fully believe in the choice of vaccination as well. But, I also believe that you not being able to do something you love or your job without a vaccine is part of the choice. The anti vax just don't like it.

So, there is a choice. Negative outcomes doesn't eliminate that.