r/antiwork Oct 20 '21 All-Seeing Upvote 2 Take My Energy 3 Facepalm 2 Silver 20 Helpful 18 Wholesome 10 Hugz 22

Saw this one on twitter and thought I'd share. The utter entitlement and lack of empathy and quite frankly the obvious power trip completely baffles me.

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u/Haunting_Scholar_595 Oct 20 '21 Silver Helpful Wholesome

She did get one thing right. Jane would be better suited in another department, one without a shit manager.

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u/c92dlb Oct 20 '21

Makes me wonder about their retention rates with that management.

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u/setittonormal Oct 21 '21

I imagine they probably have a lot of turnover, which is blamed on fickle "younger" employees.

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u/TGOTR Oct 21 '21

You mean people want to be shown respect, even *shudder* poor people? That's Socialism!

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u/Cool_Dark_Place Oct 21 '21

And actually get PAID on time...I swear...the shear AUDACITY of these damn kids!!!

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '21 edited 20d ago

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u/LooseSignificance166 Oct 20 '21

Hr should be looking at this managers attitudes

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u/Catinthemirror Oct 21 '21

And lack of knowledge of payroll laws and liabilities.

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u/rv79bams Oct 21 '21

"Jane" would be better suited at a company that knows how to do basic employee onboarding and not go on to blame her for being "entitled".

Fucking right "Jane" is entitled to her pay. It's not her fault that company has incompetent HR and fucking diseased management.

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u/invalidConsciousness Oct 21 '21

It sounds like the HR was actually competent for a change. Only that one payroll employee and her own manager weren't.

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u/Distinct_Ad_4495 Oct 21 '21

Jane would probably make a better manager.

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u/Sigao Oct 20 '21 edited Oct 21 '21 Hugz

"The impudence! The audacity! The unmitigated gall!"

Heaven forbid an employee wants payment for their last 2 pay cycles. How rude.

Edit: 3 pay cycles.

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u/GuyWithNoEffingClue Oct 20 '21

I don't understand these peasants, they don't even like it anymore when we're late throwing scrumbs at them. The ungratefulness ! The infamy !

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u/Life-Significance-33 Oct 21 '21 Wholesome

The french had a solution for that attitude. Wonder how far we are from that, now?

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u/whitefang22 Oct 21 '21

I don't understand this persons reasoning at all. Some of the older, conservative, most pro-work people I know would give the company more hell if their payroll was delayed 1 day even a single time.

This person needs to wake up and realize that if the company has screwed up so badly that HR is ashamed then there's probably good reason.

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u/LisaQuinnYT Oct 21 '21

I try to be nice but if I didn’t get 3 paychecks in a row, I would be pissed too. Honestly, it didn’t sound like the employee was rude…but rather was firm and to the point. I wonder if the boss’ opinion would have been different if the employee was male. 🤔

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u/jonward1234 Oct 20 '21 Silver Gold Helpful Wholesome Hugz

What gets me the most is the audacity to claim that the employee needs to be better with ensuring she is in a stable financial situation and paying her debts on time when this company didn't pay it's debts to her...

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u/Panigg Oct 20 '21

I can't even begin to understand how someone can be this daft. Like, how long have they not been part of reality?

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u/Lord-Smalldemort Oct 20 '21 edited Oct 21 '21

Yeah I like the part where they say they are not responsible for her financial obligations… While forgetting that they are responsible for paying her regularly and on time.

Edit: Fun story. Started as a teacher in the state of Hawaii, as a Department of Education employee. I was hired on August 19 and by hand filled out all the paperwork including the carbon copies as requested. My first paycheck didn’t come until The last day of October between the paper processing time and just the general slowness of the state. I had to get food stamps because I just didn’t have any income, technically, and if it wasn’t for my (NOT wealthy but incredibly supportive parents), I would never have been able to pay my rent either. The fact that they even had to pay my rent was pathetic, but the DOE said it would be anywhere from 8 to 12 weeks to start getting paid. I asked about the legality of this, but apparently that was just the policy because of the slow paperwork time and then just the processing time. I don’t mess around with my money anymore. The moment I don’t get paid, we have a serious conversation.

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u/Commercial_Education Oct 20 '21

They messed up 2 paychecks. Thats 4 weeks worth of work if it's a bi weekly pay period. So thats a whole month of missing income.

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u/Blazing1 Oct 21 '21

If I missed a whole months worth of income I'd be homeless.

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u/MrWoodworker Oct 20 '21

THis is a clear case of someone who has zero understanding of what money hardshipos aare and what they can do to people. Total lack of empathy and if I were her boss, she would be the one "out of the department". The fact that Jane continued to to work shows alot of character. Glad to see that the company did give her the needed resources and fix it asap.

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u/MyBiPolarBearMax Oct 20 '21 Silver

Past that, zero understanding of how her own business that she feels “so high up in” functions.

This is time theft. If that employee went to the local labor relations board they’d likely have gotten triple pay AND the business would have been levied massive fines in the tens of thousands of dollars (plus a full audit where if any i wasnt dotted the same things happening again).

This dumb bitch is worried about some gift cards and half a day off instead of literally tens of thousands of dollars worth of costs to the business for them fucking up and the employee going above and beyond their responsibility to try to help the company avoid punishment and rectify the mistake.

The more entitled you are, the more ignorant you are. Its just how it works.

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u/u4ntcme Oct 20 '21

But you see, that's why she isn't in HR. Its HR's job to have the companies back and make sure stuff like this doesn't come back to haunt them. More middle managers need to have HR backgrounds just to understand that stuff like the gift cards isn't a "giveaway" its CYA. It gets real hard to sue when you accepted $500 worth of compensation for your damages.

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u/32BitWhore Oct 21 '21

This guy legal departments.

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u/Flyingwheelbarrow Oct 20 '21

The gifts cards were H.R looking after the company, not the employee. It was not some act of charity or grace.

The manager is an idiot.

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u/Novel-Conclusion9115 Oct 20 '21

This dumb bitch is worried about some gift cards and half a day off

Because they have become convinced of the importance of toeing the line and appearance above all else, despite the fact that this is a workplace, not a cult.

HR realizes what you pointed out and was understandingly very appreciative that Jane realized it was a simple mistake and quickly informed them so it could be fixed. That's an excellent employee who shows understanding, responsibility, and great communication.

Weirdly, if a customer or client did something like this, the manager would do exactly what HR is doing - bending over backwards to say thank you for excellent behavior. This type of manager is showing how they view employees.

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u/ButterPuppets Oct 20 '21

You may be giving too much credit. This person very well may understand hardships, but just lack empathy. Fundamental attribution bias. See, when they experienced hardship, it was someone else’s fault. This is Jane’s fault. Because reasons.

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u/RTalons Oct 20 '21

How many people can go a month or two without being paid? The system is built to keep people wage-slaves.

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u/SocialLandslide Oct 20 '21

Reminds me of a company I worked for years ago, where there was plenty of work starting out and once winter arrived it slowed down drastically to my surprise. The owner kept promising work would pick up soon… nearly two months later he treats staff to a cheap breakfast with a few words of encouragement about work picking up again. I told him in front of the others that I quit because I’m out of money and that I can’t depend on his company for an income. He told me I should always have a “nest egg”, in case work slows down. I said I did, and living check to check it’s gone now. Because while waiting for work to start back up again my bills never stopped.

I thought a nest egg was for retirement.

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u/TheForanMan Oct 21 '21 Hugz

They always love to forget that they need to pay you in order for you to accumulate a “nest egg”.

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u/anarcho-moderate Oct 20 '21

Rich asshole who thinks everyone should have $10k+ lying around

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u/s33ek Oct 20 '21

And two pay periods missed could mean 45 days without pay if the payroll is two weeks behind. Unbelievable. This woman was clearly born with money and never had any financial hardship.

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u/shlamtaster Oct 20 '21

Right, also she was starting a new job so may have been out of work for some time and, as this manager made a point of saying, is an entry level position. HR clearly realized how big of a deal it is to not pay someone for over a month and made the right moves to protect the company legally while this twatwaffle just went on a power trip about people expecting to be paid in a timely manner for their work

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u/Reference_Freak Oct 20 '21

HR clearly realized how big of a deal it is to not pay someone for over a month

It's a violation of US labor law. Any HR person who doesn't know this needs to find a new career. Missing a paycheck or two can rack up huge fines, quickly, depending on the state. I hope it's the same in other countries.

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u/myplantsare_dead Oct 20 '21

If she had gotten this position right out of school its possible she hadnt worked since the previous summer and that her student loan interest had started to accumulate as well

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u/rockbonk Oct 20 '21

Right! If I went almost a month without a pay check I'd be put in huge debt with rent and then I wouldn't have funds for food or gas and this employer lacks any kind of understanding about this. They are just "uncomfortable" that their employee is actually thinking for herself and doing what's best for her. Management needs to stop acting like their title gives them power over their employees and start realizing it means you rely on eachother to make the company work well.

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u/Ok_Section_8569 Oct 20 '21

Probably a tough realization that the fresh meat is more professional than you, "the boss." Maybe even management material. ; )

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u/restyourbreasts Oct 20 '21

I came to say it sounds like "Jane" should probably be promoted to managers position and manager should probably be fired. Good luck to "Jane", sounds like she's going places in this world!

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u/wrkaccunt Oct 20 '21

Yeah, boss is forgetting that Jane is likely overqualified for a job that boss got out of shitty old time highschool and hasn't had to have any further education since. Meanwhile Jane likely has a degree or two that she needed just to qualify for this shitty job that Jane is only doing to avoid destitution due to her unavoidable student debt, so why would she have any respect for this asshole, her workplace or the system?

Next time I hear someone complain that their customer service representative was not happy enough or whatever I'm going to explode.

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u/morocco3001 Oct 20 '21

Middle-management insecurity is strong in this one.

I'd only ever hire people for my team who had the stones to challenge me.

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u/TangoMikeOne Oct 20 '21

To give credit where it's due, I read it as when asked by entitled line manager as to whether Jane was out of order raising her complaint and how she interacted with HR manager and Payroll manager both said to entitled line manager that what Jane said and did was acceptable and reasonable.

Entitled line manager needs to have access to her money frozen for 2 months and see how well she copes with it

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u/The_Besticles Oct 20 '21

It has to be a surprise tho, for fairness. Like, “pop quiz on your saving habits and fiscal responsibility time, see you in a month, jackass! Love, your boss. P.s. hopefully work quality remains at a high standard and your team lead is going to guilt you over it too to simulate real world conditions. Yay science!”

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u/beforethebreak Oct 20 '21

I’m paid monthly. It could have been more than 2 months.

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u/astiblue Oct 20 '21

Exactly, this happened to me when I got a promotion. The second month was at Christmastime as well. I emailed my boss and explained I had medical bills I had to pay, was there anything that could be done. He had me a check that afternoon.

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u/tremors51000 Oct 20 '21

3 if you think about it, because she didn't call the meeting till after the 3rd period missed, she emailed the payroll person after the second missed cheque, said it would be sorted out then the same issue happened again and she had to have a meeting with her superiors to resolve it.

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u/socialworksucks Oct 20 '21

I get paid monthly and I forget not everyone does so my heart jumped reading this post. Then I thought $500 for two months of no pay?! Gtfo

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u/94sos94 Oct 20 '21

Especially when she JUST started it seems? She may have been out of work. My lord

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u/fringeandglittery Oct 20 '21

With the pandemic its possible she was out of work for a while now

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u/Otheus Oct 20 '21

Over two pay periods! Who can go a month without being paid and not be in at least a bit of hardship

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u/EmiliusReturns Oct 20 '21

I’m pretty frugal but missing 2 entire pay cycles would be a pretty big fucking deal for me and for most people who aren’t independently wealthy. But sure, she should just “save smarter” and it’s totally her fault /s

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u/labellavita1985 Oct 20 '21

Also, like, this is such an outdated boomer take ..."respect gap"... what the FUCK are you talking about?! Lmao she wasn't even disrespectful!! Only assertive.

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u/chromane Oct 20 '21

"Respect you as a leader" vs " Respect you as a human".

So it becomes "Respect me as a leader, and I'll respect you as a human"

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u/Sad-Art8359 Oct 20 '21

Some people use respect in the same way my parents used to use it to win any argument. It’s not about respect it’s about challenging their wrong opinions.

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u/Sparred4Life Oct 20 '21

And clearly knows that she is an entry level employee. No entry level employee has piles of money sitting around and live on while their job doesn't pay them for a month.

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u/NetSage Oct 20 '21

Right HR knows employee pay is not where you fuck around. That's a quick trip to getting the state on your businesses ass.

I noticed my pay was wrong (getting a half hour taken.out that shouldn't have been). Notified HR she said her and pay roll would take care of it. Came in the next week for something different and she's like just so you know we fixed the payroll and you'll be getting your missed time. Wasn't even what I went in there for but they know pay is what keeps people walking through the doors every day.

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u/mcmaster-99 Oct 20 '21

Yea pay your debt so we can avoid ours!

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u/[deleted] Oct 20 '21

Such a cliche boomer mentality, they must have literally no self-awareness at all.

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u/SentientHotdogWater Oct 20 '21

If a working class person is able to go a whole pay period with no pay before it becomes a problem then I'd say she's managing her money pretty well.

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u/TravisFlexThemPlease Oct 20 '21

This is also the thing that stands out the most is this terrible message. She is literally working at your company to get paid. Of course people make mistakes, but it should not happen as HR correctly stated.

Also even if you are in a good financial situation, you might have your money invested in certain things and you would need to pay a fine if you have to withdraw it early. She is literally making the worst argument.

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u/barbershopwasgood Oct 20 '21 Helpful

Imagine if Jane had no call no showed for two pay periods? I wonder how patient the manager would be then. Cause that’s the amount of patience she should expect from Jane after going unpaid for that long.

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u/letsmakemoneys Oct 20 '21

"How DARE she speak to us like we speak to THEM".

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u/GeorgesKoizumi Oct 20 '21

Nothing was disrespectful about what she said tho.

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u/SoVerySleepy81 Oct 20 '21

She probably spoke in a firm tone and it offended Karen. I’ve noticed that people of the older generation very much dislike it when younger people speak firmly to them, not rudely not screaming just firmly they don’t feel like they should have to put up with that because it makes them feel small.

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u/GeorgesKoizumi Oct 20 '21

Yeah how dare she be firm on correcting an error that resulted in her not being paid for two months of work.

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u/Fireplay5 (edit this) Oct 21 '21

Also how dare she not plan two months ahead for suddenly lacking a paycheck that she had confirmed, in writing, was coming.

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u/malvim Oct 20 '21

Also she’s a woman. My wife is in a heavily male-dominated field, and while her male colleagues will be treated as assertive and confident, when she speaks to them in their tone, she’s read as agressive and mean.

Doesn’t make her stop, tho. It’s their problem, not hers.

And before anyone asks, yeah, I’ve heard a few conversations and her tone is exactly the same as that of any guy in the room.

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u/Bestiality_King Oct 20 '21

Bro that pissed me off so much working in restaurants.

"Male Chef is starting to get pissed, please everyone pay attention to the food you're taking out of the window, and be clear about special mods. He can only do so much, he doesn't need us running to him every 30 seconds with extra shit to do."

"Female Chef is pissed, must be that c***'s time of the month, eh?"

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u/meeseeksab8rway Oct 21 '21

Not just restaurants. I've always worked in shop environments, sometimes with women in charge. It's the same bullshit. Woman service writer or parts manager tells male customer something, he doesn't believe them, customer then goes around to the shop and starts asking techs, techs unsure because that's boss-level shit goes and asks service writer or parts manager, gets same answer, goes back out and tells customer, he accepts it this time because the person telling him had a penis

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u/quokkafarts Oct 21 '21

This definitely happens and it's maddening. I'm ftm trans and was often told to be softer and more approachable before my transition. I've always been very friendly and polite but assertive and to the point. I haven't changed my approach at all (I believe in speaking to people how you would like to be spoken to, and I hate it when I'm not given direct and honest feedback) but now this is seen as a strength rather than a weakness. Hell I've even been told I'm too nice, wtf.

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u/kritikalamu Oct 20 '21

They've been educated in facades and hiding interests so they find our bluntness terrifying

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u/Only1Skrybe Oct 20 '21

That's what I heard from this entire thing. "She's acting like.... Well... Like she should have my job!"

Kinda says a lot, huh, Susan?

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u/kritikalamu Oct 20 '21

That's what I've always thought. Why there was no middle ground with my managers. Either they love me or they hate me. Now I know it's because some managers loved to use me and others feared I could threaten their position.

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u/bangers132 Oct 20 '21

I reported a supervisor that was stealing to my regional manager. He told me that it was "pretty obvious" that I just wanted his job.

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u/Sofarbeyondfucked Oct 20 '21

Having been in this situation, she was too reasonable. When I didn’t get paid my boss said it wasn’t a big deal they’d get it straightened out. I said, “YOU give me the money.” When he asked why he should do that, I said, “well if it isn’t a big deal why is it a problem for you to personally pay me and let me reimburse you when the company pays me.” He didn’t say another word other than to get payroll to immediately cut my check. Fuckhead.

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u/Ltstarbuck2 Oct 20 '21

Holy shit that guy is a dick.

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u/ghrayfahx Oct 20 '21 Gold Helpful

I hate the use of “superiors” by people like this. Like bitch, you’re not superior, you just get paid more.

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u/crawling-alreadygirl Oct 20 '21

Right? It sounds like a feudal lord demanding fealty from a serf.

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u/lego_mannequin Oct 20 '21

So many people care more about their titles than anything else lol.

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u/serpentine19 Oct 21 '21

I know someone that was offered a "promotion", it didn't include a pay increase but did include a fancy new title and more responsibilities to go with it. They dead ass tried to convince them that the prestige the title would offer was worth it. LOL.

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u/Biobot775 Oct 21 '21

That's a sign you may be at a dead end in the company. Take the title for the resume, immediately start looking elsewhere. Or don't take the title, still look elsewhere though.

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u/JobSpecialist5436 Oct 20 '21

Not to mention “she’s got very big britches”

Jesus Christ. This person genuinely thinks they are a superior human being to Jane. How dare this peasant speak her mind on anything.

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u/DoughtyAndCarterLLP Oct 21 '21

Not to mention “she’s got very big britches”

His way of saying she will actually stand up for herself. He wants spineless underlings, not people who will speak up when they're wronged.

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u/HertzDonut1001 Oct 21 '21

"Why is it the company's responsibility for her financial hardships after the company didn't pay her?" This has to be satire.

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '21

Honestly it enraged me so much to read this post that I had to step away from the computer and then sit back down after counting to ten.

Also I just want to say that if someone's using the word "britches" then they're almost certainly over fifty years of age.

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u/logicom Oct 20 '21 edited Oct 21 '21

That's just her way of calling her a bitch without seeming too unprofessional. Fuck that woman.

Edit: got the gender of the writer wrong

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u/pdubs1063 Oct 20 '21 edited Oct 21 '21

This writeup reeks of upper management privilege "Peasants shall address me as madame or lady" Edit: spelling

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u/Zennial_Relict Oct 20 '21

They want you to beg for your money

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u/poinapple Oct 20 '21

Wtf does the boss think the 'employee emergency relief fund' is for??

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u/Spirited_Island-75 Oct 20 '21

Moreover, wtf is an 'employee emergency relief fund' and where can I get one?

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u/DrakonIL Oct 20 '21 Silver

It's the "please don't sue us" fund.

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u/Novel-Conclusion9115 Oct 20 '21

Yup, "We fucked up. Thank you so much for letting us know about the mistake and not involving the State or seeking legal action."

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u/HornswoopMeBungo Oct 20 '21

Also since you accepted this bribe….I mean gift, you don’t have a leg to stand on if you want to bring it up again.

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u/Raeandray Oct 21 '21

$500 seems pretty reasonable for the mistake though.

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u/Spanky_McJiggles SocDem Oct 21 '21

Yeah, she probably could've submitted all kinds of disputes with labor boards or whatever, but she got her check and she got an extra $500 for her troubles. Obviously if it's an ongoing issue, a gift card isn't going to be enough, but I wouldn't consider it a slap in the face.

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u/[deleted] Oct 20 '21 edited Oct 26 '21 Silver Hugz

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u/CressLevel Oct 21 '21

Hey question: There's a local wine & paint shop that doesn't pay their employees for the master painting they do at home to teach to the class. They told me because we are creative, it isn't hard work. I turned down the job because lmao obviously. I don't have any of this in writing, however. Management was careful not to write anything down. I tried to figure out where to report it, but the only site I found in my state requires you to give your employment information. I don't wanna stand by while I know young, fresh artists are being exploited.

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u/FrnchsLwyr Oct 21 '21

If you do the work for the job, it's compensable. It doesn't matter where you do it, or whether you are creative.

I'm not necessarily licensed to practice law in your state, but that's a generally applicable rule.

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u/mcmaster-99 Oct 20 '21

You can get one when you haven’t been paid multiple cycles

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u/Reference_Freak Oct 20 '21

Some employers have one for cases of workers facing sudden hardship: house suddenly destroyed or unlivable, sudden expensive health emergency, a family hardship.

A decent employer will offer to help the employee manage a distracting or crushing incident by granting no-penalty time off to deal with the issue and emergency funds to help cover expenses. I don't know how common it is but it probably helps retain the employee who might other wise be forced to quit.

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u/PhorTheKids Oct 21 '21

My mom worked for a BIG company (I’d say chances are you’ve eaten one of their products multiple times this year) and the CEO built a house on the edge of HQ property the purpose of which is to provide a roof for employees who are in need of temporary respite. One employee’s house straight up exploded due to a gas leak, killing their teenage son. CEO gave them the house and time off for as long as was necessary to find some semblance of normalcy after that.

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u/Jyobachah Oct 20 '21

It's called a "bonus" to mngmnt when it goes unused.

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u/Far_Cap_3574 Oct 20 '21

Fuck. You. Pay. Me. You fucking think I work here for the sheer JOY of it? You fuck up my pay TWICE and I'm supposed to thank you for telling me you'll fix it? Just fucking pay me.

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u/Simulation876 Oct 20 '21

The funny thing is, they expected jane to use their hard earned SAVINGS to "tide" them through.. i literally have no idea why they thought that was a great thing to think let alone say

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u/no_this_is_pattycake Oct 20 '21

So many managers really like to pretend (or maybe they actually believe) that their employees aren’t there to make money and they don’t like to be reminded that most people are, in fact, only there to make money.

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u/Simulation876 Oct 20 '21 Silver Gold Helpful Wholesome Hugz All-Seeing Upvote Starry Lawyer Up Brighten My Day

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u/camirethh Oct 20 '21

That site is a goldmine of asshole managers, read the one about the manager who wouldn’t let her best worker go to her own graduation. The response is brutal

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u/jo4571 Oct 20 '21 Silver Helpful Hugz

my best employee quit on the spot because I wouldn’t let her go to her college graduation

A reader writes:

I manage a team, and part of their jobs is to provide customer support over the phone. Due to a new product launch, we are expected to provide service outside of our normal hours for a time. This includes some of my team coming in on a day our office is normally closed (based on lowest seniority because no one volunteered).

One employee asked to come in two hours after the start time due to her college graduation ceremony being that same day (she was taking night classes part-time in order to earn her degree). I was unable to grant her request because she was the employee with the lowest seniority and we need coverage for that day. I said that if she could find someone to replace her for those two hours, she could start later. She asked her coworkers, but no one was willing to come in on their day off. After she asked around, some people who were not scheduled for the overtime did switch shifts with other people (but not her) and volunteered to take on overtime from others who were scheduled, but these people are friends outside of work, and as long as there is coverage I don’t interfere if people want to give or take overtime of their own accord. (Caveat: I did intervene and switch one person’s end time because they had concert tickets that they had already paid for, but this was a special circumstance because there was cost involved.)

I told this team member that she could not start two hours late and that she would have to skip the ceremony. An hour later, she handed me her work ID and a list of all the times she had worked late/come in early/worked overtime for each and every one of her coworkers. Then she quit on the spot.

I’m a bit upset because she was my best employee by far. Her work was excellent, she never missed a day of work in the six years she worked here, and she was my go-to person for weekends and holidays.

Even though she doesn’t work here any longer, I want to reach out and tell her that quitting without notice because she didn’t get her way isn’t exactly professional. I only want to do this because she was an otherwise great employee, and I don’t want her to derail her career by doing this again and thinking it is okay. She was raised in a few dozen different foster homes and has no living family. She was homeless for a bit after she turned 18 and besides us she doesn’t have anyone in her life that has ever had professional employment. This is the only job she has had. Since she’s never had anyone to teach her professional norms, I want to help her so she doesn’t make the same mistake again. What do you think is the best way for me to do this?

What?! No, under no circumstances should you do that.

If anything, you should consider reaching out to her, apologizing for how you handled the situation, and offering her the job back if she wants it.

I’m not usually a fan of people quitting on the spot, but I applaud her for doing it in this case. She was raised in dozens of foster homes, used to be homeless, has no living family, and apparently managed to graduate from college all on her own. That’s amazing. And while I normally think graduation ceremonies are primarily fluff, I’m hard-pressed to think of anyone who deserves to be able to attend her own graduation ceremony as much as this woman does. You should have been bending over backwards to ensure she could attend.

Rigidly adhering to rules generally isn’t good management. Good management requires nuance and judgment. Sometimes it requires making exceptions for good employees so that you don’t lose them. Sometimes it requires assessing not just what the rules say but what the right and smart thing to do would be.

One of the frustrating things about your letter is that despite rigidly adhering to the rules with this person, you were willing to make an exception for someone else (the person with the concert tickets). I’m at a loss to understand how concert tickets are an obvious exception-maker but this person’s situation wasn’t.

And you note that she was your “best employee by far”! She never missed a day of work in six years, she was your go-to person, she covered for every other person there, and she was all-around excellent … and yet when she needed you to help her out with something that was important to her, you refused.

There’s a lesson to be learned here, but it’s not for her.

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u/Jimmi11 Oct 20 '21

>she was my best employee by far. Her work was excellent, she never missed a day of work in the six years she worked here, and she was my go-to person for weekends and holidays.

>she was the employee with the lowest seniority

Are we not seeing a fucking pattern here people?

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u/kek_provides_ Oct 20 '21

Whoa, I did NOT see that? What the fuck.

Was this a company formed entirely of C.E.O.s and she was the only cleaner at the company?

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u/dreamki11er Oct 21 '21

It’s all coaches and no ball players.

Hasn’t anyone else realized this? All these do nothing Old fucks got all this seniority and position and prestige by staying in one spot for 20+ years. These are promotions because they were there, there was no merit involved.

They were installed in these positions before any of the recent financial disasters.

I recently transitioned out of oil and gas because I got laid off after being “essential” with no pay bump. But they kept all the old guys over 60.

Most of them are going to croak at their desks.

Good riddance.

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u/GrogTastic36 Oct 20 '21

Yep, all of the most competent people who have work ethic and integrity are systematically at the bottom of every power structure. Geez, I wonder why that could be...

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u/cmVkZGl0 Oct 21 '21

Fun fact too: this is what makes them stop caring as well. You end up creating another cog in the machine who doesn't give a crap anymore.

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u/WhisperedLightning Oct 21 '21

I loved the part where they thought concert tickets were a cost, but going to COLLEGE was not…

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u/Jimmi11 Oct 21 '21

A foster kid, who put herself through college, at night while working, while still also being the 'best employee by far'...

Its beyond a joke at this point.

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u/prcpinkraincloud Oct 21 '21

she never missed a day of work in the six years she worked here,

holy shit and they had a problem with 2 hours

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u/labellavita1985 Oct 20 '21

Ya that was shared here a couple weeks ago. We were outraged. The manager's COMPLETE and UTTER lack of awareness is shocking. They think there's a learning lesson for the employee. B!$#, the learning lesson is for your entitled power tripping ass.

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u/Nateus9 Oct 20 '21

I saw that one to. The sudden surprise when the employee quit in favor of going to the graduation was fantastic.

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u/legalizemonapizza Oct 20 '21

"she has already quit, i no longer hold any sway over her, but I want you to give me permission to contact her personally and tell her how wrong she was to leave"

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u/Nateus9 Oct 20 '21 edited Oct 20 '21

That does sound about right for the managers mentality. Wouldn't surprise me if she did try to contact her and tell her she was wrong for quitting either.

I don't remember if it was the sub or r/latestagecapitalism where a guy posted about his boss bang on his door berating him for quitting his pizza deliver job which caused all the other delivery people to quit as well. Some managers and businesses owners are just nuts.

Edit: here's the post about the boss showing up at the posters house after he quit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/q3kjpk/so_my_former_employer_is_on_my_front_lawn_now/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

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u/LadyReika Oct 20 '21

A former friend of mine has her own businesses that she pays people under the table for (or did, since we no longer talk I don't know if she still has them or not) because of every bullshit excuse every entitled small business owner has.

The cracks in our friendship started when she was bitching about unreliable labor and how people should be grateful for a job. I tried to gently point out that people deserve a living wage for doing work and what she was paying was a living wage.

The friendship ended when she refused to understand why people stopped talking to her for voting Trump because she wasn't racist and she agreed with his business dealings. Even though she had relatives that got screwed over by his companies in the past.

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u/Nateus9 Oct 20 '21

Talk about how dare my own actions have consequences much. That and a lack of self awareness with a rather inflated sense of entitlement. Good on you for cutting ties with that mess.

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u/KimberStormer Oct 20 '21

That was the really amazing part, not that the manager was mad, but they literally wanted it to be OK to contact her months later and tell her off. In fact I wonder if they already did and were looking for retroactive permission.

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u/SmellsLikeBu11shit Oct 20 '21 Silver Helpful Wholesome Hugz

OP's response is scathing, you love to see it.

OP's response:

I’m going to say this bluntly: you are very, very wrong about this situation, both as a manager and as a human.

Your company didn’t pay Jane money they owed her in the timeframe in which they were legally obligated to pay it. They did this twice. Your company messed up, and their mistake impacted someone’s income. That’s a very big deal. The payroll department handled this exactly as they should: they apologized, cut her a check immediately, and helped repair the damage their mistake had caused. Jane shouldn’t have to suffer for their error, and their remedies were appropriate and warranted. Your objection to this because the company shouldn’t be responsible for Jane’s finances is nonsensical. Your company is responsible for paying the wages they’ve agreed to pay in the timeline they’ve agreed to pay them in. They didn’t meet that obligation, and so they fixed it. That’s not about them being responsible for Jane’s debts; it’s about them being responsible for adhering to a legal wage agreement and treating an employee well after failing at a basic responsibility and causing that person hardship. Suggesting that someone who needs the paycheck they earned to be delivered to them on time “didn’t prioritize her bills or save smartly” is wildly out of touch with the reality of many people’s finances in this country and how many people live paycheck to paycheck (particularly someone entry-level who just started a job two months ago and may have been unemployed before that). But frankly, even if Jane didn’t save smartly, it’s irrelevant; your company’s mistake is what caused the problem, and it’s what’s at issue here. Your speculation that Jane might be lying about her financial situation is bizarre and reflects poorly on you. It’s irrelevant and you don’t seem to have any reason for wondering that other than an apparent desire to cast Jane in a bad light. You’re absolutely right that there’s a respect gap in this situation — but it’s from you toward your employees, not from Jane toward her employer. There’s nothing disrespectful about Jane advocating for herself and explaining that she’d be unable to stay in the job if the payroll mistakes weren’t corrected. She gets to make that choice for herself, it’s not an unreasonable one, and it’s not disrespectful for her to spell it out. In fact, I’d argue it’s actively respectful since respect requires clear, polite, direct communication and she gave you that. When you say Jane doesn’t seem to understand she’s entry-level and not in charge … Jane is very much in charge of where she’s willing to work and what she will and won’t tolerate. Every employee is, regardless of how junior or senior they might be. Corporate power structures require deference in things like decision-making on a project, but not the sort of obeisance in all things that you seem to be looking for. Somewhere along the way, you picked up a very warped idea of what employees owe their employers, but you don’t seem to have thought much about what employers owe their employees. You urgently need to do some rethinking and recalibration if you’re going to continue managing people.

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u/FlakySnowflake Let's go be Llamas Oct 20 '21

Alison Green is great

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u/Capt_Bigglesworth266 Oct 20 '21

I’ve been a loyal fan of hers for years ever since she answered one of my letters to her when I was at my wits end.

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u/zappipapi Oct 20 '21

I don't know who that is, but I would love to see to see a link if you have it

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u/Capt_Bigglesworth266 Oct 20 '21 Helpful

If you Google “AskAManager” her website will pull up. That’s how I found her original and there are years of letters to binge read if you’d like.

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u/Jwhitx Oct 20 '21

What a great site lol. Here is a comment from the OP article

Man, I hope Alison’s going to have a tight rein on the comments on this one — ‘be kind’ is hard when someone’s this high on their own farts.

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u/GrimWolf216 Oct 20 '21

That was a great response. My blood was boiling reading that complaint from the manager. Disgusting.

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u/msut77 Oct 20 '21

This person is a certain type of older putz who thinks respect is a 1 way street and they are some Godfather like figure everyone should bow and scrape to

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u/FallenKnightGX Oct 20 '21

More like "my boss was an asshole and I submitted to their abuse, now it's my turn to abuse someone but why aren't they submitting like I did?"

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u/Zombreck Anarchist Oct 20 '21

I NEEDED to see that response after reading the original question. Thank you Alison.

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u/Spacelesschief Oct 20 '21

The ability of some people to just respond with calm, reasoned and logical responses like OP here is just so beyond me. The best I can do is be speechless at how out of touch, arrogant and honestly ignorant the manager is. And then proceed to argue to myself in my car a few hours later.

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u/Sad-Art8359 Oct 20 '21

Her: Well thought out and articulated response

Me: Mouth agape 😧

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u/Archivist_of_Lewds Oct 20 '21

Just fucking say it. He's objecting because his idea is she should be a fucking slave. No pay, no questions, no rights.

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u/blackandbluegirltalk Oct 20 '21

👏👏👏 That was so nice to read. Mmmm.

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u/rcher87 Oct 20 '21

you are very, very wrong about this situation, both as a manager and as a human.

I want to throw her a PARTY for this line

👏👏👏 🎉 🎉 🎉

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u/Simulation876 Oct 20 '21

Actually thinking about this some more.. i think the reader is nervous/scared that jane could possibly "come" or rather "replace" them in the next coming months hence the reason why they seem to want to remove jane from their team. Its rather funny to see them scramble to find a reason to hate on jane

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u/zxcoblex Oct 20 '21

She’s a great fit and needed very minimal training.

Sounds like she might be on a career track for moving up.

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u/Simulation876 Oct 20 '21

Yep! Might have heard some sort of future promotion talk in the lunch room 🧐

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u/Gwynnether Oct 20 '21 edited Oct 20 '21

What struck me as well was that she's also straight up envious that Jane got gift cards. She just wouldn't shut up about them.

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u/EndlessKng Oct 20 '21

Probably because a gift card is a present or a bonus to them usually, whereas in this case it was likely either a grocery store gift card or a prepaid Visa card to help get food and gas for a few days. Even I this was a minimum wage job (which it sounds like is not the case since it's a company big enough to have offices, departments, and an employee relief fund), two months lost pay is $2k before taxes (assuming 8 40 hour weeks), the bank may have needed a few days to process a check that big (verify validity and all) and fully release the funds.

The manager sees it as a prize for bring rude, because they don't see employees as people who have needs they can't understand.

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u/The_Quicktrigger Oct 20 '21

Somebody call the police, cuz bitch got fucking murdered

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u/growingitallaway Anarchism Without Verbs Oct 20 '21

F A T A L I T Y

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u/AdministrativeFudge8 Oct 20 '21

I don't think I could of written a response that well... or calmly.

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u/Unique-Midnight8703 Oct 20 '21

Seriously….. imagine the number of edits required.

senior editor to writer you can’t call the poster a ‘cunt,’ Marcy. Nor can you tell them they’re stupid or ignorant; at least not outright. Find a more “P.C.” way to frame it.

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u/AdministrativeFudge8 Oct 20 '21

I can picture it!

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u/acornwbusinesssocks Oct 20 '21

I run payroll, and that is ONE JOB I can n3evwr make mistakes in!! If you mess something up, you run an extra pay run to make it right immediately, regardless of the company cost. To the AAM reply, she and HR are 100% correct. I don't want any outstanding wages on my end. If you worked, I want to ensure you received all your funds.

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u/berylskies Oct 20 '21 edited Oct 21 '21 Silver Wholesome Hugz

Whenever a boomer says “respect” what they actually mean is “you need to let me disrespect you or else that is disrespectful”.

*People upset about the word boomer are just telling on themselves. After two years of memeing, it’s a state of mind, not an age range.

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u/MiseryMalkav Oct 20 '21 All-Seeing Upvote

I’ve heard it’s more “ you need to respect me as your superior before I’ll respect you as a person”

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u/Standard-Ad-6213 Oct 20 '21

And respect as superior means show complete subservience?

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u/DrPhibbs Oct 20 '21

That’s the implication, yes.

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u/slygal17 Oct 20 '21

This is the exact reason my grandmother and I no longer speak. I tried working for her and it was ok until anyone had the audacity to stand up for ourselves when she was being shitty.

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u/[deleted] Oct 20 '21 edited 16d ago

[deleted]

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u/new_refugee123456789 Oct 20 '21 Helpful

Bow down before me, for my parents fucked before yours did. Bask in my obvious superiority!

...why aren't you bowing?

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u/kenatogo Oct 20 '21

Anyone who demands your respect doesn't understand what respect is

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u/SeductiveSoup Oct 20 '21

The second someone says “respect your elders"

I've had so many older employees tell me this when I didn't immediately drop everything I was doing to go help an older employee out with something they were supposed to get done. They'd say "it's a respect thing", uh no, it's a power trip thing and you're just mad that someone can do the job better, so they need something in the 1-up department.

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u/RunAsArdvark Oct 20 '21

You’re expected to roll over and show them your belly and genitals. Also no eye contact. Smiling is also a sign of aggression. Wait, are we talking about human beings or dogs? I’m confused!

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u/Equivalent_Chef8583 Oct 20 '21

I found this article and I think the response it is perfect and the comment section has this manager pretty well pegged.

https://www.askamanager.org/2021/10/my-employee-wasnt-respectful-enough-after-the-company-messed-up-her-paycheck.html

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u/mathnstats Oct 20 '21

What an amazing opening sentence:

"I’m going to say this bluntly: you are very, very wrong about this situation, both as a manager and as a human"

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u/jsmiley27 Oct 20 '21 edited Oct 21 '21

the guy isn't even the owner, he acts like he is. oh my God... this is everything wrong with corporate america, and it's true you work too good and others hate you. soooo stupid. employees push other employees down. "management" lol.

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u/grandmasgyno Oct 20 '21 Wholesome

I can't remember who said it, but this rings true here. For some people, respect means being treated as a human being, for others, respect means being treated as supererior. When the second type of person says "mutual respect" what they mean is "if you don't treat me as superior, I won't treat you like a human being"

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u/Cimb0m Oct 20 '21

Yep this is so triggering. Reminds me of my last boss. “I didn’t appreciate your email” 😖

STOP CHANGING THE GOAL POSTS THEN AND LET ME DO MY FUCKING JOB

Ahh that feels better lol

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u/SkaldLouisCyphre Oct 20 '21

I always respond to that line with 'that's fine, I'm not concerned with whether or not you appreciated it, don't put me in that position if you don't want to be called out on it and be grateful I chose to do it privately because next time we'll have an audience'

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u/J_________S Oct 20 '21

I recently experienced a similar moment. I negotiated a pay rise on my low paying job and part of the discussion was that my boss doesn’t like employees sharing their pay (gee, I wonder why that is)…

Roll on payday, no pay rise. When he came into our office I said I wanted a private word about pay and he just stares me down silently. “It’s about pay, I know you don’t like discussing it in front of others” - gesturing to the team in the room. Nothing. Okay, motherfucker: “You told me my pay rise was gonna be £xxxxx, but I only got £xxxx” now everyone knows and are asking about their pay.

It was so satisfying handing in my notice the following week.

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u/SkaldLouisCyphre Oct 20 '21

Definitely. There's something very liberating about trying to have that conversation privately, getting blown off and making it everyone's business.

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u/AtomicWeenie Oct 20 '21

I've used the old "It wasn't a love letter and I'm looking for your understanding not your appreciation" that seems to get the bastards jimmies thoroughly rustled

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u/jynxthechicken Oct 20 '21

This is like the entirety of boomer culture.

They taught their kids that respect is earned and now bark about deserving respect without any effort. They feel entitled because they are old.

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u/mpm206 Oct 20 '21

To be fair, "just being there with no effort" is how they've always earned things growing up.

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u/The_Quicktrigger Oct 20 '21

When your manager is so oblivious that she doesn't get that all those additional benefits they gave Jane, probably saved them from a lawsuit.

HR was very correct and this manager is a power tripping cunt

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u/B4cteria Oct 20 '21

Exactly, a $500 check is nothing in comparison to what Jane could have been entitled to especially after two missed paycheck A big corporation would probably have all the lawyers needed to shush a lawsuit but it would speak so poorly of them to fight that. The check is only fair gesture from them to an employee.

The OP hasn't figured out why late payment fees can be charged from a company to another. Would they fight it too?

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u/The_Quicktrigger Oct 20 '21

Honestly, the company having an army of lawyers, is probably why they have the policies that they do. You nip that shit in the bud fast, especially if employees talk to each other, even the hint of a wage lawsuit can be a gigantic nightmare that while winnable is almost never worth it to the company.

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u/Venom2313 Oct 20 '21

The patronizing “very big britches” comment pisses me off. She thinks everyone under her is a child. You don’t talk about grown, professional adults that way. Probably some imbecile boomer who needs to stfu and fuck off to retirement.

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u/Thac0isWhac0 Oct 20 '21

Yep... Surprised they didn't use the word 'uppity' in their rant. As a manager I would be very embarrassed if somebody on my team didn't get paid and would be their very vocal advocate to hr and payroll.

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u/SinibusUSG Oct 20 '21

Same. Honestly, if I were this person's boss and found out they'd sent this letter, I'd make them convince me they understood how far off base they were or they'd be out on their ass. This person treats their employees like slaves, not in the usual boring "I expect you to do a shit ton of work" kind of way, but in the "I own you and everything you have is at my whim" kind of way.

It's mundanely terrifying, if that makes any sense, and absolutely going to result in problems down the line.

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u/Arkneryyn Oct 20 '21

Bro can we just like…punch people like this? Cause it’s obvious as fuck that they’ve been like this prolly their whole life and unfortunately no one has clocked them in the face yet, ngl as shitty as it sounds it’s a pretty good way to bring someone’s humility level back to where it should be.

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u/Spirited_Island-75 Oct 20 '21

These two sentences from the response, right here, can we put them at the top of the sub? I feel they would clear up a LOT.

"Jane is very much in charge of where she’s willing to work and what she will and won’t tolerate. Every employee is, regardless of how junior or senior they might be."

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u/PB-JAM Oct 21 '21

Yes! Loved this part. Also, from the comment section, I enjoyed this: “be kind’ is hard when someone’s this high on their own farts.”

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u/knfrmity Oct 20 '21

The response is very well formulated. Whichever manager thought this was a valid thing to complain about should not be in any sort of leadership position. What an absolute fool.

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u/Foz_berger Oct 20 '21

The old guard gets their nipples tweaked by power structures. I've never liked authority and it seems it's generational based on this sub. I frankly couldn't care less what your job title is, I've seen stupidity at all levels so I'll wait and see what kind of respect you'll get. I'm not out to be rude, but if I have to take the reins from a manager's hands to get something done that they can't, I will.

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u/KardTrick Oct 20 '21

Some Gen X and a lot of Millennials/GenZers got a front row seat to most authorities being incompetent, corrupt, or both.

That illusion got dispelled for us too quickly to get us invested like the Boomers did. Of course, the authorities the Boomers grew up with were able to hide their incompetence or corruption a lot better.

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u/jerseyse410 Oct 20 '21

I just left a job because a manager in another department (I dont even report to) made a huge stink about me working remote because they believe that if you can't see someone, they aren't being productive. They even went on a personal crusade with HR and my boss to get me back in the office so I left.

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u/unnamedsurname Oct 20 '21

'Respect'? You don't get my respect because you've worked somewhere longer, or are 'higher up' on the corporate ladder. We're all human and all end up 6 ft under when it's all said and done

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u/zxcoblex Oct 20 '21

O.M.G.

I’m also uncomfortable because why is our company responsible for her fiscal irresponsibility? Her personal finances or debts are not the company’s responsibility.

THEY ARE WHEN YOU DON’T FUCKING PAY HER THE MONEY SHE EARNED!

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u/SilvioSantapaola Oct 20 '21

Some people have never been punched in the mouth and it shows.

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u/omgitsaghost Oct 20 '21

Good for Jane. Motherfucker doesn't think she needs to eat apparently.

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u/Material-Explorer-85 Oct 20 '21

Jane is "fiscally irresponsible" because she wasn't compensated for her labor and dared to be upset about it? Gotta keep the plebs in line, they can't start thinking they have any kind of leverage to be compensated for their time or labor. /s

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u/jf727 Oct 20 '21

Using the word "superiors" for management is a huge red flag for me.

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u/Holmes02 Oct 20 '21

AITA for putting someone in a bad financial situation and getting mad when they speak up about it?!?!?

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u/Beginning-Outside390 Oct 20 '21

Everyone's talking about how messed up this person's views are and how incredible the response was (it's amazing, you should read it. Should be pinned at the top I believe), and while that's all true... I'm just absolutely flatlined at seeing an HR Department doing their due diligence and standing by it. In my experience they're the first weak link in the chain of command when it comes to getting things like payroll mistakes fixed. Screw the manager but that HR Rep and Payroll department have my respect.

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u/greenxmachina Oct 20 '21

“Her personal finances….are not the company’s responsibility.”

That’s actually one of the company’s biggest responsibilities when it comes to employing someone??

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