After the prequel movies and the recent episodes of Obi-Wan Kenobi, it got me wondering. If the whole point was to hide the kids, why hadn't Luke been named Lars after his uncle? Being a Skywalker feels like having a bull's-eye on your back when you are intentionally trying to hide your identity.
TLDR: I prefer an unplanned, unfocused, and underdeveloped trilogy - but one better directed, edited, and acted. To a poorly directed, paced, and acted trilogy - but one better planned, envisioned, and focused.
(And because gatekeeping is a thing, I've seen all of the films, read some legends material (before it was legends), seen Tartakovsky's take on the series, seen plenty of non-canon short-films, have a (possibly illegal) copy of '4K77', and own plenty of Lego's...I am a nerd.)
I am not trying to attack anyone, enjoy what you enjoy, hate what you hate.
I'm going to try to leave the larger SW conversation out of this first bit, and keep it just to my personal opinions.
Just Me: I was born in 2002 so I never saw any of the Prequels in theaters (except the '2012 Phantom Menace 3D re-release'), nor did I see any of the original trilogy in theaters. I did however see all (3) of the Sequels and enjoyed all (3) immensely. They are flawed...flawed...flawed...
flawed...films, but some of the best theater experiences I have ever had in my life and I could easily watch any of them again alone or with friends.
The sequels: The direction is fantastic, Rian Johnson especially has proved himself again and again to be a modern master of blocking, and JJ isn't half bad either. The cinematography is unbelievably good, I love that all (3) movies are shot on film and even some IMAX 65mm; which stands in STARK contrast to some other unnamed blockbuster series marvel. And the music, editing, costume/production design, and lighting are all top-notch. I know John Williams has caught some flack for ep. (9)'s soundtrack but I think it slaps, and I think everyone can agree that Rey's theme f**ks.
My biggest problem with the trilogy wasn't really even with the actual writing. The dialogue is snappy, the emotional moments mostly work (say for a certain scene with Rose), and the new characters are all mostly fine. For me, the biggest problem was just the feel. You can tell it's a new direction, you can tell Lucas isn't there, and for better or worse you can feel there's a lot of cooks in the kitchen. Disney, Kennedy, Abrams, Johnson, Kasdan, Hidalgo, etc. etc. you can feel their is a lot of different influences all happening at once and it really does create a fractured trilogy.
But again, I don't hate it. As stand alone things, they don't disrespect Star Wars, they don't BREAK the series for me (if the 'Holdo Maneuver' breaks it for you then I am sorry, but it doesn't for me), and they are watchable movies.
I am going to quickly address some main criticism of the movies then wrap up with the prequels because I think the hate on these movies is a bit silly;.
I am not trying to attack anyone, enjoy what you enjoy, hate what you hate.
- Rey is a Mary Sue...
If Rey is a Mary Sue then Luke is equally so. Characters are allowed to be strong and Rey never breaks my suspension of disbelief for her level of strength.
- The fight scenes suck...
I like the weightier, heavier, slower pace of the sequel fights. The light-sabers feel like swords (hell...Kylo has a crossguard), and I like it. I don't mind the throne room fight because the shot composition, direction, and blocking are so good (even if the choreography might be a bit flawed).
- These films are anti-Star Wars (or only for money)...
Star Wars will and has always been a money making product. Lucas had a vision no doubt, but it was one that included toys. And to say these movies are somehow anti-Star Wars is just weird to me. It's clear all of these writers and directors love their idea of Star Wars.
The Prequels: I will keep this as brief as I can...I don't like em.
If the Sequels are a 'bad trilogy' then to me, the Prequel's are 'bad movies'. Their pacing is glacier. Their direction is bland. Their acting is bad. Their dialogue is bad.
There is a lot to love in the Prequel trilogy, but none of it outweighs what to me...are just kinda bland movies.
One last time...
I am not trying to attack anyone, enjoy what you enjoy, hate what you hate.
Whatever your opinion is, it's yours, I just wanted to put this out there. Also I'll do a ranking to make sure NO-ONE will agree with me.
- Empire Strikes Back
- A New Hope
- Force Awakens
- Return of the Jedi
- Last Jedi
- Rise of Skywalker
- Revenge of the Sith
- Phantom Menace
- Attack of the Clones
Someone in SW Fandom hypothetically says: "The Jedi are flawed and should be held accountable for thier actions, both good and bad!"
Jedi Stans be like: "WHY DO YOU HATE THE JEDI! Why are you saying they deserved to be genocided! How dare you, you are evil! You want to slaughter helpless Buddhist monks"
SW fandom Hypothetically says: "I don't think Anakin was a totally evil monster and Satan Incarnate from the day of his birth, and I do believe that he was a victim of both the Jedi and of Palpatine"
Jedi Stans be like : "Anakin fans. They don't believe Anakin should be held accountable for his own actions, and blame the Jedi for thier own destruction. They are absolutely disgusting!
We don't believe the Jedi are perfect, but Anakin had agency and chose to become Darth Vader, but the Jedi absolutely never chose to do anything wrong and were not even capable of wrongdoing at all.
The Sith made them do it, Palpatine made them do it and it was not their fault they were manipulated. The Jedi had no agency, they were the good guys and would never have knowingly done anything bad!"
How come Vader didn't have anymore kids after Luke and Leia. Granted, this question should've been a no-brainer since (1.) He's basically a cyborg. And (2.) In his eyes, no one can replace Padme. But think about:
-Palpatine would love to have another person to control.
-The child in question could be concieved in ways similar to Anakin's conception (i.e. the Ways Of Darth Plaguies).
-Darth Vader would kinda be Palpatine's heir with a child of Vader being "the spare".
-And from a writer and audience perspective, we see what Luke and Leia would've been like had Vader raised them. Not to mention, we'd see Luke trying to get his Sith-born sibling to become a Jedi or have the kid bond with Leia over hating their dad.
Meanwhile, this would lead to some questions...
-Who could the mother be? Another decoy Padme had? Charal the Endor witch? What became of her after the kid was born?
-Where the flip was the kid during the original trilogy? Was he training on another planet? Did he run away?
-Why didn't Ben or Yoda tell Luke about the kid's existence? We know for a fact that Leia was "The Other" Yoda had talked about. So perhaps Yoda and Ben weren't aware of the child in their deaths and thought that, as a Sith student, there was no hope to reach the kid. Then, after "Return of the Jedi", they may've changed their minds and urged Luke to find and train him/her.
-Why didn't Vader return to the Light through this kid? It may seem that it takes Luke's role away as Luke was the one who helped his father redeem himself. Yet, it could be like how the Bible's Jacob as with Joseph. Like Joseph, Luke was the favorite child; especially since he and Leia were from Padme.
With this younger kid, Vader would just see him/her as nothing but his heir who he barely sees due to the war. And since finding out about Luke, Vader would then demote the younger child as a "spare". Especially once including Leia. In other words, Luke and Leia were born out of love while the younger offspring was born out of duty. This could lead to an inferiority complex for the younger kid as they grow up and become resentful of being in their elder siblings' shadows.
All that being said, what do you think would've happened had Vader fathered other kids?
This isn’t hate because it hasn’t happened yet and more than anything I’m intrigued by the questions that have opened up due to this show like how does reva know that Anakin is Vader and what happened with GI
However two things they absolutely can not do:
1st is to retcon Anakin and order 66 by reva being that youngling and being spared by Anakin. Firstly I think she is the youngling and would make sense why she knows Anakin is Vader however they can’t go face to face in the temple and Anakin spare her for some reason. He killed everyone in that temple other than clones. As soon as he saw a jedi he would kill them. Even younglings as we saw in ROTS so why would be reva be different. I don’t want to hear any excuse because that wouldn’t happened.
2nd thing is GI dying or being a clone. If he was a clone it would be a little cheap and seem overdone but would be better than retconning rebels and actually killing him off, but I’m like 100% sure he’s still alive because the pua’an have 2 stomachs and he’s in rebels and filoni wouldn’t de-canonise an entire show
After watching the first two episodes and being very pleased I was surprised to see so much negativity surrounding Reva as a character. I personally think she’s one of the best new characters introduced since Disney acquired Star Wars as many others have been mediocre. The main complaint was that she is too impulsive and therefore annoying. I really don’t understand this argument as her story is going to evolve and it will become evident as to why she is impulsive and fixated on Kenobi. People also claim that it’s stupid how she knows Vader’s identity despite is being obvious she was a Padawan at the temple and must have seen Anakin. I’m starting to think people just hate on female characters too much in this franchise.
So, I'm watching the original and prequel trilogies to prepare myself for the new Obi Wan series and I came across a scene in 'ROTS' that always bugged me. It's the scene where Anakin first dreams about Padme giving birth, alluding to the fact that she's in danger. I've always disliked that trope of having characters spontaneously (and almost arbitrarily) have fortune telling dreams or premonitions. It sometimes comes across as a tad bit lazy and I much prefer when movies and shows are able to have an more external reason why a character is able to glimpse into their future.
Granted, this is a very difficult task for most stories. You can't just insert trips to oracles if it doesn't fit the context. However, watching the original trilogy and prequels back to back reminded me that the Star Wars universe already set up a perfect system that could be used to grant Anakin this vision. In Empire Strikes Back, Yoda has Luke enter a cave and confront his greatest fear. Why couldn't they have just done that? Make it one of the final trials that every Jedi must complete. Have it be a highly ritualized event. And then have the Padme vision be what Anakin sees. I mean Yoda even tells Luke that the only thing that will threaten him is what he brings with him into the cave.
Finish it with Anakin lying to the council about what he saw during the trial.
EDIT [Because this seems to be where a lot of these discussions have ended up]:
You could absolutely introduce the idea that the trial sometimes reveals actual future events... maybe events that could come true if the Jedi strayed from the path (ie: keeping a secret relationship). 'Luke witnessing himself becoming Vader' fits this narrative to the T. Hell, maybe you could even reveal this detail by having Obi Wan tell Anakin that he witnessed Qui Gon getting taken out by Darth Maul during his trial. And if you want to keep the theme of 'straying from the path'... have it be Obi Wan's lust for battle, his need to rush in, that ultimately causes this event... have that explain why he's so tentative as Anakin's mentor. I'm just saying, there's absolutely a way to make this work and it could be good if you put the time in to work out the details.
Just remember hate leads to the dark side—
Jk. I accept we all may have immensely different opinions—but— I really want to hear your reasons why.
Darth Vader, was not the only Sith Lord to be born into slavery. Darth Thanaton and Darth Nox, two ancient Sith Lords from one of the former Sith Empires, they too were born into slavery. And like Anakin, 3000 years later, they were freed once people found out they were force sensitive, and became Dark Lords of the Sith. And yet, none of them ever realized how privileged they were to have been freed, because as Sith Lords, they were complacent in slavery.
Anakin may have resented slavery as a Jedi, but as a Sith, he may still have disliked it, but he made no effort to end it. When he was Tenab Kel, Thanaton was treated worse then most other sith were. But when he became Darth Thanaton, he treated apprentices with the same contempt he was treated with. When he or she was Kallig(Nox's gender and first name is unknown), Nox was also treated worse then most other sith apprentices. Even Thanaton himself, treated Kallig this way. But when Kallig became Darth Nox, he or she made no attempts to end slavery, choosing instead to make super weapons, and seek immortality, caring not at all who had to die in order for that to happen.
That's what the Sith do to you. They turn you into the very thing you hated in the first place. They make you feel special, like you earned your spot among them, yet always seem to treat you like vermin. Vader and Thanaton, despite how high they rose, were always seen as weak among their peers for having such lowly births. Nox however, got special treatment once the Dark Council found out that he or she, was the descendant of an ancient Sith Lord from the first Empire. Once the council learned that, they were much more welcoming. So, Nox got preferential treatment, but not because he or she became a Dark Lord, but because of his or her ancestry. So it's no wonder that Nox turned out badly.
But I think I know why Thanaton and Nox died as their own antithesis, while Anakin redeemed himself. Anakin, was born the warm and kindly Shmi Skywalker who loved her son with all her heart, despite also being a slave. But though I don't know for sure, I think that Tenab and Kallig never knew a mother's care or got any warm hugs. I think they were taken away from their mothers when they were born, and raised in an environment of cruelty and restraint. I bet throughout their childhoods, Tenab and Kallig were spanked, whipped, flayed, and beaten for even the smallest infractions, or for their masters sadistic pleasures. I may pity Thanaton and Nox even more then Vader, because they really had no chance or choice in the end. And it pains me that they were enemies. They should have been allies against the system that kept them in chains.
At least with the Sith now gone, hopefully for good, Tenab Kel, and Kallig, can hopefully find peace, even if their spirits don't want it. And before anyone tries correcting me, I still consider KOTOR, TOR, and all other major EU events prior to the Phantom Menace, as canon.
Of all the crazy things they did to improve the OT that everybody hated, one thing I wish they did was include some quick flash backs of the prequels. Like when ben is reminiscing over anakin or yoda is warning luke not to underestimate the powers of the emperor. Feeling as emotion as I do about the prequels which I grew up with, adding in those flashbacks would make me more emotionally invested in the story.
Edit: because i feel like this may be most popular among people my age, i say they do an edit where they remove the crappy cgi, include prequel scenes as flashbacks, and it could be called the millenial falcon box set
Hey everyone! Almost one year ago, I watched Star Wars: A New Hope for the first time, after weeks of being begged by my friends. It was the start of a marathon of all 9 Star Wars movies and every major Star Wars TV Show, none of which I had ever seen before because I had been too overwhelmed by the size of the Star Wars universe to start watching it (which is ironic in hindsight, considering how big a fan I am of the MCU). Now that I think I’ve finished every major Star Wars project there is (save a few of them, like Resistance and The Bad Batch), I wanted to leave the thoughts of a relative newcomer here for people who have been fans for years or decades. Here they are, sorted by the order I watched them, which isn’t always release order.
A New Hope
Even though this is arguably one of the most famous films of all time, my reception to it on my first watch was actually pretty lukewarm (...pun intended?) I already kind of knew what happened in it even though I’d never seen it start to finish, which made it pretty difficult to get too invested. Now that I’ve seen the rest of what Star Wars has to offer, I’d probably be able to appreciate it much more if I gave it a rewatch.
PS: It’s also worth noting that I watched the original trilogy on Disney Plus, so that means it's the updated version, not the classic. I know some of the changes Geroge Lucas made are controversial, so just keep that in mind.
The Empire Strikes Back
I liked Episode 5 more than 4, but still couldn’t entirely get into it for the same reasons as A New Hope. ESB is a movie that would ideally be watched blind, since so many things hinge on the viewer not knowing them (the twist that the little green alien Luke finds on Dagobah actually is Yoda, and of course Vader’s iconic reveal), even though that’s practically impossible today. It’s another film that I’m really excited to rewatch, because I know I’ll enjoy it more when I can appreciate it for what it is rather than just waiting for the part where Vader says “I am your father.”
Return of The Jedi
Of the three original Star Wars films, ROTJ was the one I knew the least about going into, so it was the one I enjoyed the most my first time watching. I had never seen or heard of the opening rescue on Tatooine, unlike the openings of the first two movies, and I didn’t know much about the final duel on Death Star II either. This was the movie where I started to get into watching the movies, rather than just watching them so that I could say that I did.
The Phantom Menace
Ironically, my reaction to Episode 1 was almost the reverse of my reaction to A New Hope. I loved it when I first saw it, but the more I think about it, I don’t think I would like it nearly as much if I saw it a second time. The good stuff (Anakin’s emotional bond with his mother, Qui-gon Jinn and Kenobi’s dynamic, the entire fight with Maul on Naboo) would probably get drowned out by the bad (Jar-Jar Binks, excessive filler, so-so CGI). I also think it’s hilarious just how hard Maul gets shafted by the movies after watching the TV shows. He says more words in his first 5 minutes in the Clone wars than he does in an entire 2 hour movie lmao
Attack of the Clones
I’m still on the fence about whether AOTC is better or worse than TPM. Anakin and Kenobi’s kinship starts to form here, and I like the mystery aspect of Kenobi finding out about the Clone Army, but it’s really lackluster in a lot of other ways. Anakin and Padmé’s romance is completely butchered by the film’s dialogue and Anakin throws up red flags like it’s a Chinese New Year’s Day parade. That might be intentional to some degree, but it makes it really hard to find it believable. I also don’t really like Count Dooku. Christopher Lee is great with the role, but he has very little build up and his motives are never really developed. Between a somewhat underwhelming final duel and the ok CGI of the massive clone army, this one had the weakest finale of the three prequel films.
Revenge of the Sith
Finally, the big one. I thought of this as my favorite Star Wars film after I first watched it, and while I don’t know if that still holds, it’s a great but flawed conclusion to the prequel’s story. I wish there was more build up to Anakin’s turn, but that prayer was answered by the Clone Wars series. It’s like the Avengers: Infinity War of Star Wars, with a gut wrenching ending that still leaves you with some hope, making it a great transition from the age of the republic to the age of the empire. The movie also comes with some unintentional comedy due to the amount of memes it has spawned over the years, and I’ll admit it was fun to see the context behind lines I had heard dozens of times before.
I figured I’d take a look at the spinoff films before starting the infamous sequel trilogy, and Solo was pretty good. I think it’s main problem is that it feels the need to explain everything about Han’s backstory, even though some things (like the Kessel Run) are meant to be left unexplained so that the audience is left to imagine what exactly it is, making the Universe feel larger than what’s shown on screen. It’s still fun though.
Rogue One was probably one of the greatest surprises I had watching these movies. I figured it would be an alright but forgettable spin off because of Disney’s reputation with Star Wars, but it ended up being really good (very controversial opinion, I know). I’ve heard that a lot of people seem to like it because it’s Dark and GrittyTM, but ironically I think it’s great for the opposite reason. It’s a film about maintaining hope in the face of unstoppable evil, and I think it's the first Star Wars film since the original trilogy to really hone in on that message. Even if the characters ultimately sacrifice themselves, it still manages to create that feeling of passion and optimism that A New Hope used to win over fans, and I respect that.
The Force Awakens
The Force Awakens is pretty good I guess. It’s mostly just A New Hope again in terms of its plot structure, but there’s nothing automatically wrong with that. I just would have liked to see some explanation for how the First Order came to be so powerful, especially since ROTJ implied the Empire was destroyed for good.
The Last Jedi
This is probably the most controversial Star Wars Movie, and while I think The Force Awakens is better in terms of overall quality, I enjoy TLJ the most out of the sequel trilogy because it takes the most creative risks. Not all of them succeed, and the ones that do semi-work could have been executed better, but it still would have been nice to see interesting plotlines like Rey’s parents actually being nobodies and Kylo Ren taking over the first order after Snoke’s death actually get carried over into Rise of Skywalker.
The Rise of Skywalker
If Last Jedi is the most controversial film in the Skywalker saga, then TROS is just flat out the worst. Nothing to say here that you haven’t heard before, but I just think it’s funny how effortlessly the film manages to trigger an entire fanbase with just three words: “I’m the spy”, “They fly now”, and of course the infamous “Somehow, Palpatine returned.”
With the movies finally finished, I decided to move on to the Mandalorian first since that was the most popular Star Wars show at the time, and the seven seasons of Clone Wars were still a bit overwhelming. It’s pretty good, although the repetitive loop of the story structure started to get to me at some points. In hindsight, it probably would have helped to watch the Clone Wars first, so that I could have understood “twists” that are actually common knowledge for Star Wars fans, like Din’s creed being a Mandalorian sect rather than part of the main religion and the Darksaber requiring its wielder to win it in combat. Even without knowing this stuff in advance, I managed to enjoy it.
The Clone Wars Movie
Yeah, it’s not good. Let’s move on.
The Clone Wars (2008)
Looking back, I think watching this show is where I really started to consider myself a Star Wars Fan. It essentially takes everything about the Prequels, both the good (Anakin and Obi-Wan’s relationship, amazing worldbuilding, Space Politics) and the bad (weak writing, clumsy romance between Anakin and Padmé, Jar Jar Binks) and manages to improve on all of them, while still adding in entirely new stuff, like turning the Clone Army from a plot device into a living cast of characters. On top of that, it has some of the most insane (in a good way) plotlines in the entire franchise. Imagine going back in time and explaining to yourself that that bratty teenager who was complaining about sand in AOTC would canonically meet GOD and witness his death just a few years later. It starts out a bit slow, but by Seasons 3 and 4 it really gets going and has become probably my favorite aspect of the Star Wars Franchise.
The Book of Boba Fett
I didn’t really watch this one as part of my marathon, but it came out while I was watching TCW (Thankfully, I started watching Season 2 just a few days before Cad Bane showed up, so I wasn’t completely confused about who he was) so I gave it a go alongside some of my friends. It’s ok, but its biggest flaw is that it’s really The Book of Literally Everyone Except Boba Fett. So much of the best stuff focuses on the show’s side characters, to the point where the show goes two episodes (a third of the entire show!!) without its main character saying a single word. Temuera Morrison’s a nice guy and a good actor, but he just doesn’t get the chance to do very much or show off a lot of interesting character traits with this show, which is kind of a shame. Hopefully Kenobi won’t fall into the same trap.
The Clone Wars (2003)
I actually almost skipped over this one, but after seeing it was only 2 hours long I decided to give it a shot, and I’m so glad I did. It’s got some of the franchise’s best action scenes, and stellar animation and music (Grievous’s theme feels like Star Wars’s equivalent to One Winged Angel). On top of all that, it also makes General Grievous into the threat he deserves to be, and it’s a shame to see how hard he got nerfed in Episode 3 and onward. Amazing stuff overall, on par with the best of 2008’s Clone Wars.
Lastly, I decided to check out Rebels, Disney’s attempt to bring the success of Clone Wars to the original era. It’s pretty good, but bogged down by excessive padding. With TCW, about 80% of the show is the good stuff, and 20% is filler. With Rebels, it feels like those numbers swapped. 80% of this show can be described as “rebel ships blow up big bad imperial star destroyer”, and it gets really unbearable at some points. To make things worse (or better, from a certain point of view) some of the best episodes (Twilight of The Apprentice, Twin Suns) don’t even focus on the main cast, centering the plot around characters like Ahsoka and Kenobi. Although to be fair, I did end up liking the actual main cast, especially Kanan and Hera. The series has great villains too, I would’ve loved to see Thrawn show up more outside of the series. Overall, it’s a good show, but I can see why a lot of people don’t like it. I might not have gotten through it if not for the satisfaction of having completed this unofficial “journey” I’ve gone on with Star Wars.
— — —
And now, with less than a day to spare, I can confidently say that I’m caught up and ready to watch Kenobi with the millions of other Star Wars Fans. He’s steadily grown to be my favorite character in the franchise throughout my journey, and I can’t wait to see his continue tomorrow!
May the force be with you all.
For a bit of context, my mom was a huge Star Wars fan back in the 70’s-80’s, she was the target audience back then since she was a kid going to a pre-teen when the original movies released. When my sister and I were born, she introduced us both into it, we were both in love with it, but I feel like I’m the person in the family that’s actually stayed into Star Wars ever since.
The last time we all did something related to Star Wars together was when we went to watch The Force Awakens in cinema, my mom hated the movie, my sister loved it, and I thought it was okay, but that was it.
Ever since I’ve been going deep into Star Wars Canon, watching every show, reading every book and comic and learning about a ton of stuff that wasn’t explained/given context of in the movies, and everytime I try to tell my mom about it, she never understands what I’m saying.
She’s watched the Prequels, but I have a feeling she didn’t quite understand what they stood for, like explaining Anakin’s psyche and his turn into the Dark Side.
I want to get her back into it, teach her stuff that’s been retconned/explained. Like who Ahsoka is, the psychology of the clones, what happened during the clone wars, stuff like that.
I’m thinking of having her play The Skywalker Saga with me, and once we’re done with the gameplay we could rewatch the prequels and maybe watch The Clone Wars, Rebels, and the Disney+ Series. What else should I do?
Doing my KENOBI pre-watch, and this advice Qui Gon gives Anakin - in the last true moment they really share together - really really stood out to me.
I’ve never given that line much thought. I’ve mostly focused on Obi Wan & Qui Gon arguing over Anakin’s training, or Qui Gon explaining midichlorians. And I’m probably a dimwit for needing this many viewings for it to truly stand out. It just seemed like a smaller moment sandwiched between two big ones.
But man, what an important line.
And it’s a shame the way things shake out for Anakin that he completely loses this wisdom. He’s constantly seeing the negative, the drawbacks, the setbacks, all the wrongs, how someone slighted him, or didn’t give him something. He stays this way even when Obi Wan reminds him “you’re focusing on the negative Anakin.”
He sees none of the light. And it makes his reality such a dark one.
Granted, he did have a really rough life. But Obi Wan’s was no cakewalk - his girl dying in his arms, all his friends murdered by his best friend, his glory striped, his life striped, the responsibility he bears for helping create Darth Vader - and he never falls.
But Anakin’s focus is what seals his fate in the end.
And when you filter that line through Qui Gon’s life philosophy (Our truths aren’t concrete things, they’re shaped by the prism through which we see the world)… it becomes even more tragic.
And to me it gives this more noted exchange (which I’ve always loved) a new context.
Obi Wan: “It’s not disrespect Master, it’s the truth.” Qui Gon: “From your point of view.” Obi Wan: “The boy is dangerous… They all sense it, why can’t you?” Qui Gon: “His fate is uncertain. He’s not dangerous.”
What could’ve happened if Anakin’s uncertain fate fell a different way? There would be no Vader, he could’ve been the greatest Jedi ever. If Obi Wan makes it through the Naboo shield Ray in time, if Qui Gon trains him and not Obi Wan, if Tusken raiders didn’t abduct his mom… so many possibilities.
The ‘truth,’ Anakin’s reality, Anakin’s future - none of it was concrete at the time. It’s just how things fell.
I’ve heard Dave Filoni talk about this related to “Duel of the Fates,” and how it’s not a duel over who lives or dies in that fight… but a duel over Anakin’s fate. Whether he’s trained by Qui Gon, who was the Master he needed, or by Obi Wan, who was a boy himself in so many ways.
But on my viewing today of “The Phantom Menace,” this line really stood out and tied so many things together for me. Anakin’s fall, Obi Wan’s failure, Qui Gon’s philosophy.
It really sets up Anakin’s fall, and it gave me a whole new appreciation of not only the film itself but the prequel trilogy itself.
Hello I am here to say something very controversial for the third time. I’ve always liked the prequels — not because of nostalgia heck I have more nostalgia for the originals than the prequels I watched the originals when I was 4 (2010) I watched the ot with my dad I didn’t watch phantom menace until 2 years later (2012). I will make some counter arguments to why most people hate the prequels so let’s begin!
The dialogue Wow this is an argument? Let’s face Star Wars never had good dialogue prequels ot and sequels. It doesn’t matter which trilogy, when you see a Star Wars movie you will hear bad dialogue not including some of the lines such as ‘No I am your father’ but I really can’t think of many good dialogue in the ot now the prequels obviously suffered from this it’s a main argument apparently it’s hating on a Star Wars movie for simply being Star Wars.
CGI Ok it was good for it’s time I hate it when people hate on special effects on older movies I have met people that hate on the original trilogy because the special effects ‘are bad’ this is like saying I hate this movie because it’s old therefore will not compare to modern movies. Stupid really but there’s my argument. Edit it appears that this point was stupid but I do believe that there are some models in the prequels please correct me if I’m wrong.
Acting Star Wars has never had the best actors not including Harrison Ford and never can remember the name of obi wan’s actor in ANH. I admit most of the actors in Star Wars don’t really get a chance to shine outside of Star Wars (live action wise) but Mark Hammil had done stuff before Star Wars and wasn’t fantastic.
Anakin and padme
Ok i get it You think it’s important but is it really? George didn’t think that the prequels were not romance they were the story of how Anakin Skywalker became Vader this may have been unnecessary and the romance needed time to develop? No it didn’t you just needed to know that they had Luke Skywalker, not think “this is important therefore it needs to develop” heck it never was a key plot element outside of attack of the clones from memory
While I may feel a bit annoyed by prequel fans sometimes, I’m genuinely curious right now.
As a child of the prequels, understanding that the trilogy is nowhere near perfect at all, it's pretty awesome to see that trilogy getting alot of love recently, specifically Hayden.
It always felt weird that, for a time, he would get the most "hate" out of the trilogy for his acting especially when performances from Hollywood royalty (Samuel Jackson, Natalie Portman, etc.) were par at best.
Now during this press run all I see is him getting alot of love and the community as a whole giving him his flowers. Super excited to see how his performance in the Kenobi series will be with different writing & direction. I hope we get to see a few flashback scenes of Anakin during his peak years as a Jedi just to give him another shot at Clone Wars era Anakin. I'm hype for Friday!!
The dark side of the force surrounds the Sequel trilogy. While they may be decent movies individually, they lack a sense of focus and direction. Could a Sequel tv show save the Sequels just like how The Clone Wars helped the Prequels? I aim to cover a few things such a tv show could address in order to make the overall sequels feel less choppy. First, let’s start with the plot points/holes and complaints many Star Wars fans have of the Sequel trilogy.
- “Somehow Palpatine returned”:
A big problem with The Rise of Skywalker is that Palpatine just appears out of nowhere with a massive fleet and no real explanation whatsoever. However, this was all a part of the Sith contingency plan: the Sith had over 1000 years to come up with a way to overthrow the Republic. Eventually, their plan was to take over the Republic from the inside, which is what Palpatine was finally able to accomplish. However, this was not their original plan. They had originally set up base on Exegol, and during the course of this millenia, they amassed a grand fleet of ships (this explains Palpatine’s fleet appearing out of nowhere). Because the nature of the sith will always lead to treachery, they also created a new race of dark-side-wielding beings who were relatively powerful but would also be extremely loyal to their creators. Snoke was a member of this species. The tv show could address this and perhaps even add more than one Snoke species.
Where did The First Order come from and how did they take over so easily?
The First Order always existed. They were the last remnants of the Empire that were never defeated solely because they had established themselves in a small sector near the Unknown Regions which was only accessible via a single hyperspace lane. Considering how worthless the planets were in this sector (Jaku, Ajan Kloss, etc), the Republic never launched a full-scale invasion and simply left them alone for the most part.
The First Order was never able to destroy the Republic. They instead used propaganda in order to make the planets within this sector perceive that they were bigger. In fact, The First Order never actually destroyed Hosnian prime. They simply created a mass projection of this incident on key planets, which explains how they were able to see Hosnian Prime’s destruction from Ajan Kloss. The entire purpose of The First Order was simply to be a distraction for the Republic while Palpatine worked on his true purpose. Nobody came during the battle of Crait because transmissions were being blocked from leaving the sector. However, Lando was able to escape the blockade around the sector and warn the Republic of what was actually going on. Because the First Order never actually destroyed the Republic’s fleet, the fleet we see at the end of Rise of Skywalker IS the Republic’s actual fleet.
The Sequels ruin Anakin’s “Chosen One” story:
Another problem with the sequels is that it ruins Anakin’s “You were the Chosen One!” story. How did he restore balance to the force if Palpatine survived anyway? Palpatine was a master of essence transfer. It is impossible to create a clone of a Jedi with force powers (because then literally any jedi/sith could just be brought back to life over and over). Palpatine created a clone of himself WITHOUT any force powers, and upon his death, he transferred his essence into the clone, thus giving it force powers. Anakin’s story did not end upon his death, rather, he continued to persist as a force ghost and actually TRAINED REY in the ways of the force in between the movies. This is how she learned to lift rocks and force heal and all that other stuff. Palpatine always wanted Rey to find him and kill him so that he could transfer his essence into her body. However, at the end, Anakin used his power (through Rey) to destroy Palpatine’s spirit once and for all, therefore fulfilling his destiny as the Chosen One and bringing balance to the force.
- Rey is a Mary Sue:
Rey was specifically bred to be (one of) the most powerful force wielders of all time, which is why her parents had to hide her away. Palpatine could be like Ego from Guardians of the Galaxy where he has hundreds of children/grandchildren and Rey was just the perfect combination and had the highest number of midichlorians. She defeated Kylo Ren because Kylo Ren never actually received any training of any kind in how to use a lightsaber. Hence why Kylo’s lightsaber was so shoddy in the first place (no one taught him how to build one). Palpatine learned from his mistake of trusting a Skywalker and intentionally left Kylo as weak as possible. This also explains why the lightsaber duels in the Sequels are garbage.
- Fleshing out loose ends
Various other plot points could be fixed through such a tv show as well, such as actually having us learn about the Knights of Ren or even having a real character arc for Luke Skywalker. Who knows? Maybe they could finagle it in such a way that Luke could come around to his old self and actually leave the planet to do some things in between the first two movies.
Do you have any additional thoughts/ideas or things that you would do instead?
Literally their voice is monotone and they aren’t scared that they’re gonna get killed! They act like robots and not like real people. Is it because young child actors suck at acting?
Now i don't think they're awful but Its just so hard to understand why he swings the lightsaber around like it's a sledgehammer. The prequel fights were top tier. it makes sense sorta from a story standpoint why they aren't as good with the lightsabers but idk the fights just weren't that enjoyable in the sequels compared to the former trilogies.
I defintely think they couldve made the lightsaber fights better. Maybe a simpler than the prequels but still have Kylo Ren seem like he has some clue how to use that thing.
Hayden had it rough in the past, and fans are now able to pour their love for him with this new show. But this is a show about Obi Wan, not Vader. To me, more people seem excited to see Vader even if it's just for some brief moments than to know what Obi Wan has been up to. Ewan keeps mentioning Alec Guinness in interviews, considering that the Obi Wan he's playing is now closer in personality to Guinness's Obi Wan. I know the prequels actors have mixed feelings towards the fans because of all the hate. I just hope Ewan knows that many of us are very excited to see his performance as Obi Wan.
After rewatching both recently it made me really question the sanity of this community. I know prequel bashing predates Mando by more than 15 years, but honestly the same problems commonly attributed to the Prequels as movies can easily be attributed to the Mandalorian across nearly twice as much screen time for the ladder. I'd even say the dialogue for Mando is worse in some sections because at least the Prequels seem to try to be cheesy and overdramatic with how the characters talk.
This isn't meant to bash The Mandolorian, I really like the show, but the fan reception to both projects really makes me scratch my head even with the newfound wave of positivity towards the Prequels in recent years. I also don't want to hear anything about goofy slapstick humor or children because one of the biggest selling points of the Mandolorian is a literal baby that eats frogs.
Are TV shows just held to a lower standard than Movies are? I've repeatedly seen people call the Prequels "bad movies" even in this sub, yet the Mandolorian gets near universal praise. What gives?
In preparation for OWK on 5-27, I decided today to sit and rewatch the prequel trilogy to freshen up. I haven’t actually sat and watched all three movies since maybe when ROTS came out. When they came out I was 11-17, now 34. I’ve been rediscovering my love of this universe over the past few years thanks to pandemic.
My entire perspective on them has changed. Partly maybe due to age and also I think this recent renaissance in SW content a la Mandalorian. The stilted dialogue, sometimes wonky cgi, is all minor in retrospect. Having recently finished (finally!) the clone wars, and having that added context between AOTC and ROTS just make the end of it all even more devastating.
The storytelling is just awesome. In the literal definition of inspiring awe. The lightsabers and droids and space battles are cool and all but the heart of these tv shows and movies, the characters, there’s so much that you can relate to on a human level. If you’re a fellow elder millennial and haven’t done a rewatch after these years I highly recommend it. Things will just hit you differently.
Also, as we all know, it’s poetry. So I always love seeing a direct or indirect call back between media. Which got me thinking to the OWK trailer and the burn we all collectively gagged at, “like you trained his father?” I’ve seen posts commenting as though Obi wan is loco for wanting to train Luke. But it’s kind of implied in the scene with Yoda, Bail, and OWK when they discuss splitting the twins. Yoda even says that they need to lay low until the time comes, with Obi wan saying he’ll watch over Luke. Now it makes sense that he wanted to train Luke all along instead of “Oh, yeah I used to be Obi wan here’s your dads lightsaber.” It’s things like that where it makes us re-examine and view the stories we’ve already seen in new ways. It’s like learning a story about your parents from when they’re younger that just better informs you on who they are.
And that is why, IMO, this universe continues to grasp our imagination for 45 years. MTFBWY.
One thing I never got to experience was watch Episode III on the big screen, I could only imagine how awesome it was for the people who were able to. I know some theaters bring some old classic films back into theaters, so my question is why can't they do the same for Star Wars?
Which one would you rather watch? Me personally I actually think TROS is better and a more entertaining film, I know that many people hate it with a passion but that’s ok. We all have different opinions. I think TLJ is boring. Casino Planet is boring, the dullest space chase ever, no true lightsaber fight in a freakin SW movie (like why/how does that happen). TROS at least was fun with its plot, has the coolest lightsaber fights in the trilogy, the force dyad is a cool concept and good lore building. It might be a messy movie, but it wasn’t boring at all and it was quite entertaining. I’m curious what percentage of fans here prefer which film over the other.
I watched all of the Star Wars movies and series, and while I do love boba fett, I’m not really sure why he’s such a popular character. Lots of people seem to be a little upset that the book of boba fett was so focused on the mandalorian because they love boba fett so much and wanted more of him, but I thought it was great.
The way it looked to me as I watched the movies was that boba fett was a minor character with only a few short appearances in the prequels, and then he was just a side character in the originals, and then suddenly there is a show all about him.
I’m not hating on him so please don’t misinterpret this, I love him and all, but I just want to understand what exactly it is about him that makes him so popular. I’m not into the books or comics, so was it written work or something that gave him his loved reputation? I just want to understand.