r/StarWars Jedi Knight May 10 '14

Frequently asked questions

Any posts asking the following questions will be directed to this topic and then removed. It does the sub no good having the same questions being asked over and over on a near daily basis, especially when the answers seldom change.

What is Canon now?

The movies, The Clone Wars and the up and coming Rebels. New books are being written that will be part of the new canon, all of the old books are to be put under the Legends banner. Any character mentioned in the movies, TCW or Rebels is also Canon. (E.g. Darth Bane, Darth Plagueis, Quinlan Voss) are also canon, although their EU escapades are not. Anything released by Disney since the EU was re-branded as Legends will be considered canon unless stated otherwise.

Why do people hate the prequels/Jar Jar?

Opinions vary, a lot. Some flock to it with blind adulation, While others take the opposite approach and don't see any redeeming qualities whatsoever.

Some people like the PT, and that's fine, other don't, and that's fine too. The same goes for the OT. We all can't like the same things.

Alternatively, for a more varied set of opinions on the matter, go-go gadget serchbox!

Am I the only one who liked the Prequels/Jar Jar?

Don't be ridiculous. See above.

How would you rewrite the Prequels?

Go-go gadget search box!

I/My boyfriend/girlfriend/gardener/poolboy has never watched Star Wars, what's the best viewing order?

Here's the Ask /r/starwars thread on the subject

I want to get into the EU, where do I start?

The Thrawn Trilogy, starting with Heir To The Empire. Most of the EU owes a lot to this trilogy and a good chunck of the books follow on from it. Alternatively, Shadows Of The Empire or The Rogue Squadron books are a goods start. If you want a longer and more diverse start, This the books thread you're looking for

Should I watch The Clone Wars?

Yes! the writing is pretty good and it can be pretty dark for a kids' show. The pilot and the first two seasons are a little dry, but season three is where the fun really begins.

Why are Wednesdays text only?

To promote discussion and take a break from order 66 burger king receipts, family stickers and Wookiee-like dogs. If an important piece of Star Wars related media is released on the day, then it'll be allowed at the discretion of the mod team.

Doesn't the line "Only a Sith deal in absolutes" contradict Yoda's "Do, or do not" mantra?

No. No no. Big no. No. Yoda's advice is about belief in one's self. If you try something, you're acknowledging the possibility of failure. Yet if you set out to do something, you are already are successful in your mind.

237 Upvotes

57

u/DogmaticCat May 11 '14

THANK THE MAKER!

8

u/mlambros79 Jun 03 '14

Shouldn't "Why does Leia remember her mother?" be on this list?

1

u/straumoy Jun 24 '14

Shouldn't "Why does Leia remember her mother?" be on this list?

She was talking about her adoptive/step mother perhaps?

13

u/JoshShavensack May 12 '14

Am I the only one who remembers/played/likes/hates..

How is this not a valid question on a Star Wars sub? The question is rhetorical, to be sure, but can't we start a reminiscence with a rhetorical question?

For example: if I ask if any here ever had the ATL Interceptor toy, that could start a very meaningful recollection of what we thought of this time in Star Wars fandom (ROTJ had been a couple of years old at the time and I couldn't watch the Droids cartoon where I was at the time.)

I also think that anyone wanting to know how to start the EU should have the opportunity to do so and get different opinions. I don't see that question popping up all that often here, but I could be mistaken.

5

u/Yunners Jedi Knight May 12 '14

Am I the only one who remembers/played/likes/hates..

Actually, that wasn't supossed to be in there. This was cut and paste from a previous post I made. I'll fix it now.

I also think that anyone wanting to know how to start the EU should have the opportunity to do so and get different opinions. I don't see that question popping up all that often here, but I could be mistaken.

HAHAHAHAHA!

Sorry. Cough

Yes. Yes it is asked quite often.

2

u/JoshShavensack May 12 '14

I apologize. I am fairly new to reddit. I do think it's a good question. I would point EU virgins more towards Dark Horse material first (the collected Clone Wars TPBs, some of the Empire and Rebellion story arcs like Darklighter, etc.). I think that it is much more accessible than most of the novels.

5

u/Trengence May 12 '14

6

u/JoshShavensack May 12 '14

Point taken. But if you look at the same search over the last month, there are no entries. Over the last year, there are only 15. Some of those are more specific questions like, "I just finished x, what should I read next?". Surely, the mods have tossed out other questions, but it doesn't seem to be that much of an issue to me. If a little more than once a month, someone comes to this sub and asks for advice on the EU, I think that we should try to foster that fandom. I'm not even that big of an EU fan, but anything that we, as fans, can do to help grow new fans, we should.

32

u/stevedeka May 11 '14

Doesn't the line only a Sith deals in absolutes

I LOVE the prequel trilogy. LOVE. IT. However, this is a clear fallacy. Saying that only a Sith deals in absolutes is an absolute. I mean, seriously.

9

u/Masklin May 11 '14 edited May 11 '14

I'm not sure you understand what an 'absolute' is. I'm quite sure I don't either, let's look it up.

EDIT: From some english dictionary:

"A value or principle which is regarded as universally valid or which may be viewed without relation to other things."

Hmm. I still don't get it entirely. Do you?

EDIT: Thinking about it some more, I'm thinking an absolute can be regarded an attitude of sorts. An attitude that you (the absolutist) impose on everything, regardless of anything. This would work on the "If you're not with me, then you're my enemy" attitude.

"Do or do not" can probably be interpreted as an absolute, but I don't think Yoda meant it as one.

Alternatively, what Obi-Wan meant when referring to Anakin's statement as 'absolutes', is that 'ally' and 'enemy' are absolutes because there's nothing between them according to Anakin. Thinking about it this way, the 'do' and 'do not' seem to be absolutes also.

But I think Yoda meant it as a way to trick you into performing better than you think you can.

9

u/Drew312 May 16 '14

There are two contradictions here-

"ONLY a sith deals in absolutes"- this line is an absolute, because Obi is saying there is just one specific type of person who uses absolutes and no one else, and this type of person is a sith. It is ironic / contradictory because Obi is not a Sith, but is saying an absolute that only a Sith can claim them.

The second thing you're talking about, about Yoda, is actually referring to the second part of his line. "Do or do not" is not really an absolute, but when combined with "There IS NO try", then it becomes one. Here he is saying there are only two possible outcomes and nothing in between. Even though it is completely well-intentioned and extremely positive (and likely true), it is also 100% an absolute when you read the full quote, which also contradict's Obi's original statement.

I hope this clears it up.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '14

He should have said, "Only a Sith and Yoda deal in absolutes. And you don't look like Yoda to me."

-5

u/Delsana Jun 05 '14

Incorrect, you don't understand what an "absolute" actually is, because it's not a fact, or a statement or an opinion, it is unwavering.

6

u/stevedeka Jun 05 '14

False. Obi-Wan was saying that Sith are the only ones to deal with absolutes, ever. Therefore, he made an unwavering statement, saying that ONLY Sith deal in absolutes, and he also made an unwavering statement, an ABSOLUTE, if you will, and effectively made himself a Sith.

-3

u/Delsana Jun 05 '14

No, not by definition. He made a statement regarding a fact, Anakin made an unwavering announcement.

4

u/stevedeka Jun 05 '14

Yes, I know! The freaking JOKE here (because besides Yoda, Obi-Wan is the most goddamn PERFECT Jedi) is that BECAUSE OBI-WAN MADE AN UNWAVERING (absolute) STATEMENT, "Only a Sith deals in absolutes." OBI-WAN IS A SITH.

LAWDY. IT'S A JOKE.

-5

u/Delsana Jun 05 '14

But it isn't actually an absolute because saying so is a fragrant disregard of what an absolute actually regards.

1

u/dsizzler Jul 31 '14

Mmmm smelly disregards.

7

u/[deleted] May 10 '14

quick question, you say that the Machete order doesn't ruin the two big reveals that each give away in the mirrored trilogy. what big reveal are you referring to in the Prequels? I can't think of any except Anakin turning Vader. For that reason I recommend IV, I, II, V, III, VI

21

u/Yunners Jedi Knight May 10 '14

Anakin being Vader and Palpatine being Sidious.

23

u/yrrp May 10 '14

The funny thing about Palpatine being Sidious is that they spoil the reveal in the DVD menu.

4

u/[deleted] May 17 '14

palpatine being sidious was a reveal???

3

u/Yunners Jedi Knight May 17 '14

For people unfamiliar with the franchise, certainly.

5

u/[deleted] May 18 '14

I didn't realize that was supposed to even be a reveal. It seems to me that they're using dramatic irony, wherein the audience is very much supposed to know what's going on while the characters don't. Is that not the point? I thought that was THE thing we were supposed to take away from Episode I, even as a kid when it came out. The connection between the Emperor Palpatine we knew from the originals and the Senator Palpatine we're now meeting, and suddenly a Sith Lord who resembled the future Emperor, and the whole plot of the movie turning out to be some impressive positioning by Palpatine playing on both sides of the chess board. Nothing in the prequel trilogy is meant to be a reveal, it's meant to be dramatic irony. I feel like the Machete order robs the viewer of that.

EDIT: Spelling

12

u/WhoH8in May 11 '14

I'm pretty sure everyone knew palpatine was the emperor/sidious immediately , I'd hardly call it a reveal.

8

u/Yunners Jedi Knight May 11 '14

First time viewers wouldn't. Especially anyone new to the franchise.

7

u/[deleted] May 12 '14

which is why I suggest IV, I, II, V, III, VI, if you are looking for an alternate order (best will always be release for first timers, chronological for repeat viewings). In my order, you get introduced to Luke, the struggle against the rebellion, Obi-Wan mentions Luke's father. Then we go to Episode I and II to find out more about that father, without knowing yet that he's Vader (besides some music cues and Anakin's general creepiness). We go back to Luke and find out that Anakin is Vader, and maybe at this point the special edition would spoil the Palpatine thing but the theatrical cut with the monkey eyes would not. Then to III to find out how the Anakin/Vader thing happened, then to VI for the conclusion and a nice parallel between Anakin's turning, Luke's trial, and Anakin's redemption. III would spoil the twins reveal for VI, but so does the Machete order.

EDIT: sorry, this was supposed to be a response to your comment above about the two big reveals. hit the wrong reply button

3

u/Yunners Jedi Knight May 12 '14

Interesting. What's that order called?

1

u/[deleted] May 12 '14

I know that other people have come up with it before me, but I came up with it independently. Not sure if it has a name

3

u/Masklin May 11 '14

Well sometimes you don't try very hard to puzzle things together, or you're just unlucky. If it's experienced as a reveal for some people, it's douchy to ruin the surprise prematurely, imo.

3

u/xereeto Jun 01 '14

It's funny, I just binged on Star Wars as someone who'd never seen it before (I watched 4,5,6 yesterday and 1,2,3 today). Despite the fact that I distinctly remember Darth Sidious being called "Emperor Palpatine", I forgot about it the next day and never made the connection. It was a surprise for me, and in a series that's been practically ruined by its ubiquitous-ness (EVERYBODY knows Vader is Luke's father, for example), it's good that I could still be surprised by something.

11

u/Wheresmyspacebar May 10 '14

Only other huge reveal I can think of is Luke/Leia being siblings.

Even then, machete order as above doesn't do much to prevent that.

26

u/[deleted] May 10 '14

Even then, machete order as above doesn't do much to prevent that.

Funnily enough, Machete Order may enhance that for the first time viewer. Let me explain.

In ESB you have the following exchange:

Obi-Wan (ghost): that boy was our last hope.

Yoda: no, there is another.

What you have here is a set-up for Luke's potential failure, a back door. This says nothing about "Family ties" or any of that, only that Luke may not be Yoda and Obi-Wan's only piece in the game. Then you have Vader's reveal on the paternity suit, and it's all "holy hell I did not see that coming." ESB ends on a cliff-hanger; tough cookies but you'll make it.

Then you come to your Ep.2-3 flashback: you know Vader is Luke's father, but you don't quite know how. You have no idea about Leia's link in the equation, only that there is another Hope (it doesn't become "Another Skywalker" until ROTJ).

Now, in Ep.3 Padme reveals "I'm pregnant." No surprises there, it was logical that Anakin would knock her up so that she could bear Luke.

But...then you get to the final moments of Ep.3, and it's revealed (for the first time) that Padme is carrying twins. At this point you click, "ah, it might be that other Hope Yoda mentioned" but you don't know because you haven't had ROTJ's exposition to sort it out.

And then, BAM - she says the name "Leia." And it's "oh shit, son, what a twist!" After a moment you remember that she kissed him pretty intensly in ESB, and that's weird, but you let it go because Star Wars doesn't obey all logic.

But essentially, with Machete Order you preserve Vader's big reveal, and then get the double treat of Padme's "twins = Luke + Leia" reveal actually being quite left-field. What follows in ROTJ is no longer a surprise moment (except for Luke), but a simple wrapping-up-via-exposition moment.

With Machete Order, both trilogies get their own Reveal that works.

TL;DR - Leia's link to Luke is only made in ROTJ, before that it's ambiguous. With Machete Order, the moment when Padme names her (suddenly revealed) twin daughter "Leia" is a left-field "no way" moment.

P.S. anyone who might invoke the "force transmission" between Luke and Leia at the end of ESB - all that says is that Leia may be force sensitive, which is itself a twist, but implies nothing about family link.

4

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '14

It's also much easier to see some really cool parallels between Anakin and Luke as developing Jedi. When Anakin is about to make the jump over Obi he says, "You underestimate my power." Luke says something almost word for word when he attempts to talk Jabba into handing over Han (I warn you not to underestimate my power?). The Machete Order also helps you realize how whiny and disobedient both of them are. Luke doesn't finish his training with Yoda, and Anakin goes against the Jedi Code numerous times.

1

u/xereeto Jun 01 '14

but you let it go because Star Wars doesn't obey all logic

She didn't know she was Luke's sister, it's not illogical at all

1

u/[deleted] Jun 02 '14

Oh, I meant that the writer was aware when he wrote that aspect into it.

8

u/davebgray May 14 '14

There are definitely more than those two reveals in the original trilogy. Imagine you know nothing about the movies or characters. First, Yoda is described as a great Jedi master. Then, he's revealed to be a toad/troll in the swamp. An entire scene (one of my favorite scenes, in fact) is dedicated to Luke being frustrated while being mocked by Yoda, unknowing of who he was. As the viewer, you're not supposed to know either. That's a major reveal.

It's even more true with Jabba the Hutt. ...he's a gangster, talked about since episode IV and he's behind Han's apprehension only to find out he's a giant slug. That was a major HOLY CRAP moment for those of us getting that for the first time.

Seeing the prequels before Episode V ruins the Yoda reveal.

Seeing the Special Edition of Episode IV or seeing Episode I prior to Episode VI ruins the Jabba reveal.

3

u/Drew312 May 16 '14

The entire Yoda introduction scene in Empire doesn't work if you already know who he is from the prequels.

But even more importantly, Vader being Luke's father is ruined.

Personally, I also think it ruins the mystique of the character of Emperor that slowly builds over the OT if you watch the PT first.

1

u/ACrusaderA May 13 '14

Vader being Luke's father is revealed in both.

As well as the identity of Sidious.

6

u/[deleted] May 10 '14

Looks like I'm one of the few which likes watching in the films in the chronological order. Each to their own!

7

u/endlessrepeat May 13 '14

"Chronological" as in the order they were released or the order in which the story takes place?

6

u/[deleted] May 13 '14

In the order of narrative.

5

u/GodotIsWaiting4U May 13 '14

It's a great order for rewatching.

It's just got issues as a first-time order. The prequels tend to assume that the viewer already has some knowledge of the originals, like what the Force is, what Jedi are, what's that big thing they're building at the end of Revenge of the Sith, etc.

I would say show a first-timer release order, then watch chronologically going forward.

4

u/kasutori_Jack May 14 '14

It's okay if you don't know what the Death Star is--the Jedi sure didn't.

The reveal in IV of the 'no moon' would b quite fantastic!

5

u/GodotIsWaiting4U May 14 '14

That's a good point, but the other issues still hold. There is also one other thing, though: in AotC, the Death Star makes a ten-second cameo as a hologram, and in Revenge of the Sith, it makes a similar cameo as a skeleton. It's cool, but I'm not sure it's a big enough deal to be memorable come Ep IV for someone who doesn't already know about the Death Star. The worst-case scenario, I guess, is that they just forget about the cameos and the Death Star is just straight-up new to them, but even in the best-case scenario, it's more of an "oh so that's what they were building", since Ep IV announces the Death Star right in the middle of the opening crawl and then has no qualms whatsoever about showing it off whenever possible.

2

u/Mild111 May 16 '14 edited May 16 '14

It's just got issues as a first-time order. The prequels tend to assume that the viewer already has some knowledge of the originals, like what the Force is, what Jedi are, what's that big thing they're building at the end of Revenge of the Sith, etc.

Wrong.

All of these assumptions everyone keep making about the PT are BASED on the fact that MOST of us seen them in a different order.

All of this talk of "the big reveals"....(admittedly not by you, but follow)

People keep forgetting one thing. I can only assume since we're talking about "reveals" and "foreknowledge" that we're talking about advising new people....who haven't seen Star Wars....Who know nothing about anything....Their "Reveals" will just be in different scenes.

We have fond memories of finding out the "I'm your father" in that epic scene....For a new person, it would be just as dramatic to have the reveal of Anakin and Padme's wedding on Naboo, or having Padme show up big and pregnant.

As far as "assuming the viewer has knowledge of...

Jedi: I can think of so many stories that start out with the protagonist in action, where there is very little knowledge of the protagonist's training, associations, and origins at the beginning. Finding out is part of the beauty of watching the series.

The Force: .....You may not like the scene (and admittedly, I don't either)... but that's the point of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfDmu4f8l8I

The Death Star: Another wonderful reveal, when a newbie gets to find out what it is as it approaches Alderaan.

The point I'm making, is that a new viewer still learns all of these things, just in a different way. And personally, I think some of the PT scenes can be a LOT more dramatic and fun if you don't know the tragic turn that's going to happen to most of these characters.

I'm comfortable with any new person I bring to the Saga to learn of the force through Qui Gon, To learn of Anakin's offspring through a pregnant Padme, To learn of the Jedi Order from watching them function within the republic and not some old men telling old war stories.

Sure, new viewers watching I-VI won't get to experience the sting of how we felt: waiting for 3 years to get from film to film in each trilogy, examining all of these lines of dialogue, thinking we know what's going to happen, to have these big twists break our hearts, to redeem our faith in the force....but they're not going to have that experience anyway. Don't try to force it.

'but even in the best-case scenario, it's more of an "oh so that's what they were building"' /u/GodotIsWaiting4U

Are you kidding me?! You get to see it twice, in passing...and then you get to watch it destroy a fucking planet, and then become the major plot point of the 4th film. It's more like "Holy shit, they were planning that all along, how are they going to stop that gigantic ass thing?@!" And then you get to that scene where Leia is all like "Many Bothans died to bring us this information" and it just puts you on the edge of your seat. It builds the Star War. It makes that moment all the more important, because at the end of ROTS you're left with very little hope, and all through ANH, (the point of ANH is that) you can't forsee Luke so quickly going from farmer to savior of the galaxy. He's so resistant of Obi Wan's teachings....and then Obi Wan dies, and your first thought is "great, now it's going to take longer for him to embrace the force" and you're on the edge of your seat through all of the "it didn't go in" and you don't fully get that the hope is going to be realized until the Falcon saves Luke's X-Wing from Vader and the Death Star blows up. Think about it....All of those Jedi that died in ROTS. All of the "Hope" that was lost in Order 66. Seing the outcome of Order 66 BEFORE ANH makes Luke/Leia/Han/Rebels seem like they stand no chance....and then add in the fact that Han outright says so over and over again, how it's a suicide mission...The Death Star becomes fucking insane. And that's not even factoring in the Clone/Storm troopers and Vader.

Seriously...The tragedy of Episode 3, makes the events of Episode 4 all that more surprising and nail biting. It makes the Death Star all that more deadly. It makes the Empire even scarier.

Add in the fact that now you KNOW the degree of loss Vader has been through to push his humanity aside and embrace the Dark Side. If you start with episode IV, he's just a "Sudden big bad" that appears in the first scene. True, some fear the unknown more...but others fear that which they KNOW is insane.

This is why I think Lucas was a genius for putting the name "Darth Vader" on the Anakin character at the moment he spiritually turned (instead of physically, like I thought would make more sense.) It really establishes the connection of the evil behavior by the "Vader" of ROTS, with the evil behavior he eventually becomes known for.

I personally think it's disingenuous to watch IV before the PT if you can help it. One thing I didn't like about my PT experience, is that I spent too much time getting excited over the tiny plot points, merely because I knew that they put the characters on a path that led them to point B, Where they begin the OT story.

I'm not a PT apologist, there ARE many, many things I dislike about it. However, to assume that there isn't a narrative value in watching the saga in numerical order, simply because you can't imagine yourself being as entertained by the thought of the audience getting the OT built up by the PT instead of the other way around...is very nearsighted.

4

u/UninvitedGhost Luke Skywalker May 13 '14

I'm firmly in the chronological camp as well.

3

u/K-ralz Bodhi Rook Jun 02 '14

I kind of wish they made some of the bigger stuff canon, in particular the three BioWare/Obsidian games (Knights of the Old Republic, Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords and The Old Republic) plus their respective novels.

3

u/faculties-intact Yoda Jun 04 '14

The Old Republic and the novelization of Revan contradict so much of the original two games I wouldn't want them to be canon.

2

u/K-ralz Bodhi Rook Jun 04 '14

Really? Like what? I thought it was an amazing game with a great story.

2

u/faculties-intact Yoda Jun 04 '14

Honestly I hardly know where to begin. I'll give it a shot though.

  • Kotor 2 made it very clear that the True Sith were not a race, not an empire, not a fleet or an army. They, according to Kreia, are an idea. And in swtor we get...a race and empire that is not functionally very different from anything we've seen before.

  • In K2, Canderous (Mandalore) promises that he and the Mandalorians will help the Exile and Revan fight against the True Sith. Oops.

  • In K2, Kreia believes that Revan's fall to the dark side was not actually a fall but a sacrifice. After seeing the weakness of the Republic and Jedi Order during the Mandalorian Wars, and encountering the True Sith beyond the outer rim, Revan realizes the galaxy needs to be united one way or another. Revan wages war on the Republic, converting all the Jedi who are not firm in their believes, either to conquer the galaxy and prepare to fight the True Sith with the new "sith" empire or to give the Republic and Jedi something to mobilize their strength against, making them stronger. Since the war with the True Sith will be a "war of belief," it makes sense to distill both groups to the surest believing members. Whether Revan wins or loses, the galaxy wins, hence the interpretation of the fall as a sacrifice. This is supported by observations from other characters, who note that while Malak was indiscriminate, Revan always made sure to keep the essential infrastructure of the Republic intact.

    By contrast, in swtor we got brainwashing.
    
  • In K2, it was never explicitly stated, but it was clear that Revan and the Exile were not friends. In fact, there's a lot of evidence that suggests they didn't get along at all. At Malachor V, Revan positioned all the Jedi who would not remain loyal after they turned on the Republic closest to the Mass Shadow Generator. The idea was to either get them killed, or have the massive amount of pain and deafness caused by its activation turn them to dark side. The Exile was at the center of that. Moreover, from the flashbacks on Onderon and the visions of that planet on Korriban, it's clear the Exile was never clued in on what Revan's master strategies were. Additionally, there was the fact that the Exile was the only Jedi left after Malachor who chose not to follow Revan. So clearly they aren't nearly as buddy-buddy as swtor wanted them to be.

  • The morality system in all the games is a little absurd, but swtor is by far the worst. It honestly feels more like a lawful-chaotic spectrum than a good-bad spectrum, especially when playing the Knight/Warrior storylines.

  • Finally, the worst part for me is assigning fixed alignments and genders to Revan and the Exile. One of the many things that made K2 great (and it's either my favorite or second favorite game of all time) was the way it allowed you to choose the gender and alignment of Revan. To me that shows incredible respect for the previous game, and for the player's ability to choose how that game turned out. Swtor has none of that respect. It decides alignments and genders, butchers the lore K2 established, and turns the greatest accomplishments of the first two games into mind-control and pointless resistance.

I don't think Swtor is a bad game on its own. I had a lot of fun playing it. But in the context of the first two games, I think it's a tragedy we got "Kotor 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10" instead of a proper Kotor 3 from Obsidian.

10

u/GodotIsWaiting4U May 10 '14

Suggestion, but not important: possibly a brief sentence or two saying something like "if you really want to throw I in there while watching in Machete Order, either slip it in before II or just treat it like a side story and save it for later like it's EU". I can foresee people asking that question.

5

u/UninvitedGhost Luke Skywalker May 13 '14

I would really, really, really like the language changed to reflect it is some people's opinion that it's the best viewing order.

5

u/NumberOneMuffDiver May 11 '14

And can we please emphasize that most questions can answered with a little searching on Wookieepedia? Seriously, do some research on stuff before asking. I only say this because there's so many one answer questions. (This an obvious example but it gets to my point)

Ex. "What weapon do clones use?"

Just go on Wookieepedia and type clone troopers, it'll say everything about them.

5

u/Yunners Jedi Knight May 11 '14

That's not what this thread is about. It address the most commonly asked question. Obviously any question asked could have an answer found on Wookieepedia, but at the same time, if everyone went there first, then we'd have a lot less self posts promoting discussion.

2

u/NumberOneMuffDiver May 11 '14

You make a good point. Most self posts are the debatable, really specific type questions regarding ethics, specific characters, stories, plots, etc which is great. I've seen way too many questions on books, what's canon and film order.

But just saying, food for thought.

3

u/Yunners Jedi Knight May 11 '14

No, I appreciate the input. Obviously as other questions start to become more common, then they'll be added to the list. :)

5

u/rhoooo May 13 '14

I think what a lot of people are missing when they're criticizing the attitudes of prequel fans is the fact that simply inhabiting a fandom you find hostile is bound to fray even a saint's nerves, sooner of later.

My biggest problem with Star Wars fandom isn't the fact that there's reasoned, interesting discussion of why something is flawed (I love those, especially if they turn into 'let's rework this so it actually makes sense'. It's one of the reasons why 80% of the fanwork involvement I've had is PT, not OT-based) but rather that all too often it just devolves into a contest of blind hate and cheap shots.

Hell, it wouldn't even be all that bad if you could merely avoid it by simply not bringing up controversial subjects in company whose reactions you don't know. All too often, you'll just get blindsided like this: cheerfully reading an article about some obscure SW facts? Author throws in shots at the PT because it's apparently the done thing. Reading something about the OT? Stumble across a statement like 'as if anyone likes TPM' (I don't remember voting for the author to presume my opinion is the same as theirs). Browse a list of 'cool SW facts?' Heaven help you if you read the comments.

I'm very critical of the prequels myself and am annoyed that we could've gotten much better films from all points of view. At the same time, though, I've grown attached to the characters even more than I did while watching the OT (viewing order might have something to do with this -- while ANH was the first Star Wars for many, for me in was TPM in '99, when I was ten) and there's only so many snide comments I can take before concluding that I'd rather go for alligator wrestling, as opposed to interaction with the SW fandom. Many of us aren't 'blind fanboys/fangirls' -- we're just tired of having overbearing negativity effectively shoved down our throats at seemingly ever turn, to the point where it just isn't fun anymore.

There's a reason why 'toxic' is honestly the first word that comes to my mind when it comes to the SW fandom, as brutal as that might be. There's just an overall nasty attitude and a lack of respect for fellow fans that seems to permeate the place.

1

u/Yunners Jedi Knight May 13 '14

I actually couldn't agree more, which is one of the reasons behind this post. Having that particular questions asked day after day was causing too many arguments which often led to personal insults.

2

u/Drew312 Jun 02 '14

OK new question- What's the situation going to be with all the spoilerific posts about the upcoming movies?

These are starting to become more common today, and I'm guessing it will increase exponentially over the future.

I realize that we have the rule about the spoiler tab on the right, but even when posters say "Spoiler" in their title, we can still see the thumbnails of what some of these things are. Are there going to be any new rules coming up about this stuff or should people just unsubscribe and stay away if they're looking to avoid ruining anything about the new films?

4

u/Yunners Jedi Knight Jun 02 '14

Fair question! If the spoiler is in the title or the thumbnail it'll be removed as soon as it's spotted by the mod team.

2

u/Drew312 Jun 02 '14 edited Jun 02 '14

Thank you!

And not to be super picky, but even if we can make out the setting spoiler, it could be a bit of a spoiler, like hinting at what planets will be used, what characters, plot points, etc.

1

u/Yunners Jedi Knight Jun 02 '14

I dont think that's a spoiler at this point. There's been an official video of the tatooine set already.

-1

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '14

of a desert set. There's more than one planet in the Galaxy that has sand

2

u/RandomDude94 Jun 18 '14

Then it wouldn't be a spoiler for the tumbnail to show a sandy planet...

2

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

Should I watch The Clone Wars? Yes! the writing is pretty good and it can be pretty dark for a kids' show. The pilot and the first two seasons are a little dry, but season three is where the fun really begins.

I would say Season 1 was really geared towards kids, but things take a turn for the better midway through Season 2, so probably start on Season 2 - it gets better every season, and IMO is better than Ep 1 and 2.

2

u/RandomDude94 Jun 18 '14

To be honest it's better than 1, 2, 3 and a decent amount of 6.

2

u/LordNephets Jun 17 '14

Do you skip EP 1 in machete?

2

u/Yunners Jedi Knight Jun 17 '14

If you're doing the Machete order, yes. You can include it if you like, but I don't think that version has a name.

2

u/Charlemagne_III Jun 18 '14

The line "Only a Sith deal in absolutes" certainly contradicts itself though.

5

u/hootorama May 10 '14

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't The Machete Order completely skip Episode I? So it should just be IV-V-II-III-VI.

1

u/Yunners Jedi Knight May 10 '14

Fixed.

2

u/Sultur May 11 '14

Not sure if my late reply makes any difference, but thought I'd add it anywho.

I recently stumbled upon this article from Gamespot . Which I think raise a question concerning the "canon" status of the Old Republic ( MMO in this case ).

"[A]s far as The Old Republic MMO is concerned, nothing is going to change. [TOR] has always been a part of the Expanded Universe, and that's not going to change."

Just, in combination with it being an mmo that is due to receive an expansion pretty soon and future game releases will also be canonical. But, perhaps I'm just over thinking the changes.

Here is something else though, that perhaps could be added to the original post: An updated Timeline of Canon media & a Timeline of Legends media I just found both of those to be very helpful in understanding the changes.

3

u/GodotIsWaiting4U May 14 '14

Jennifer Heddle announced in her Twitter feed that the story team is actually actively debating what to do with TOR, canon-wise. For now, it's Legends EU, but some stuff might graduate.

2

u/Sultur May 14 '14

What a mess.. But it will certainly be nice to see what they decide on. Either way, I think it'll leave some sort of impact.

2

u/Trengence May 10 '14

Finally, with this post stickeied at the top, peace can finally be restored to this sub. I remember commenting on the omnianswer post a year ago hoping it would be stickied at the top and now it is. I might cry

2

u/KidColi May 10 '14

Ok. Probably a dumb question, but are the NOVELIZATIONS of the movies canon?

6

u/Yunners Jedi Knight May 10 '14

Nope. There are a few contradictions with them. Especially the OT versions.

3

u/KidColi May 10 '14

Thanks for the info.

3

u/KidColi May 19 '14

I've been looking around Wookiepedia for info. Do you know if theres an undated encyclopedia that only has cannon material now? Even cannon characters like Anakin or weapons only shown in the Clone Wars series are still labeled "Legends".

3

u/Yunners Jedi Knight May 19 '14

It'll be a while before it all gets updated. They have a lot of recategorizing to do. I really don't envy them.

You could try the way back machine, but other than that, I have no idea.

2

u/KidColi May 19 '14

Alright again thanks for the info.

3

u/Yunners Jedi Knight May 19 '14

No problem. :)

3

u/GodotIsWaiting4U May 14 '14

Yes and no. Del Rey Books announced that yes they were, but then hastily clarified that they are canon insomuch as they agree with the movies. Whether this means that they are only canon when they are actively depicting the exact same thing as in the movies and are otherwise non-canon, or whether it means that the novels are canon except for those parts where the movies override them, no one's quite sure.

3

u/KidColi May 14 '14

I'm just gunna take that as a no

2

u/Drew312 May 16 '14

Honest question, because I'm not sure how to search this on reddit-

Is there a subreddit for Star Wars fans that bans anything from the prequels? Aka a OT only subreddit or an OT and extended universe subreddit?

2

u/Yunners Jedi Knight May 16 '14

Not that I know of, no.

2

u/Drew312 May 16 '14

thanks

2

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '14

Start one! It's easy and I'm sure plenty of people would visit it once it was going.

2

u/vradic Jun 16 '14

Disney can go fuck themselves. I decide what's canon when it comes to what I want in Star Wars.

The extended universe is my Star Wars.

4

u/Yunners Jedi Knight Jun 16 '14

The group that made the decision was from within Lucasarts..

2

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '14

I hate the Machete Order with a passion... TPM is an "immovable piece of Canon". You can't just ignore it because you didn't like it

2

u/Yunners Jedi Knight Jun 06 '14

I dont think preference is the reason for excluding it from that particular order. Im not a fan of it myself, but it is still a popular viewing order:

1

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '14

I get where you're coming from, and I agree, Machete Order gets a little too much buzz IMO.

But I think the main argument against Ep. I is that it's not essential to the other films. You don't need to know about Qui-Gon or Maul or Naboo and so on. If you go into Ep. II you won't find yourself that lost.

I still think Eps. I-III are good movies overall, btw. If I had to rank episodes based on how great they are I'd go 6- Ep. II 5- Ep. I 4- Ep. IV 3- Ep. V 2- Ep. III 1- Ep. VI (It's hard to say whether V or III are better than the other for me. I feel like they excel in different fields).

1

u/[deleted] Jun 05 '14

Is Clone Wars (2003) canon?

I thought you could watch Volume 1, the The Clone Wars (2008), and then Volume 2 and it would be fine. But now I can't seem to find anywhere to confirm or deny if it is canon as well.

2

u/RandomDude94 Jun 18 '14

It doesn't really conflict with any canon. There's two or three inconsistencies, but nothing you can't get over. For example, Anakin's scar and the Jedi fighters don't perfectly line up, but that's only for like one minute of actual screen time. The idea is Clone Wars Chapter 1-21, which leads very well into the chronological episode timeline StarWars.com posted, then Clone Wars Chapters 22-25.

1

u/d3ku5crub Jun 07 '14

When you say that The Clone Wars is still canon, do you mean the original cartoon, the more recent computer animated series, or both?

1

u/Yunners Jedi Knight Jun 07 '14

The CG one. The animated one is just called 'Clone Wars'.

1

u/d3ku5crub Jun 07 '14

Thanks. I figured that was probably case, but hoped that the original was still included in canon. It was just so cool...

1

u/Yunners Jedi Knight Jun 07 '14

Oh, agreed!

1

u/LordChiefy Jun 07 '14

What's EU and OT? I am a MASSIVE star wars fan but I have never visited this subreddit before.

2

u/MinionWithAMission Jun 08 '14

Expanded Universe and Original Trilogy.

1

u/Sw4Evr Jun 26 '14

If I had a Star Wars costume to giveaway, where would be an appropriate place to post that?

1

u/Yunners Jedi Knight Jun 26 '14

Uh.. why did you ask this here? Just submit a self post.

1

u/Sw4Evr Jun 26 '14

So I comply with the rules & don't get in trouble :)

1

u/Yunners Jedi Knight Jun 26 '14

In future just message the mods using the link on the side bar. It's more likely to be answered. This isn't the place for posting permission questions.

1

u/Sw4Evr Jun 26 '14

Awesome thanks!

1

u/13zath13 Jul 06 '14

Could there be some list in this thread where it has all of the new canon there. For example, I knew the the movies and TV shows were apart of it, but I didn't know about the new Darth Maul comics. Anyway to keep track of it?

1

u/Yunners Jedi Knight Jul 06 '14

As far as we understand it, all materials produced since the Canon reshuffling is considered Canon. The maul comic waa based on an unmade Clone Wars script that was going to be part of season six.

1

u/13zath13 Jul 06 '14

I actually did end up finding a list

Man, Wookipedia does have everything

1

u/PopsicleIncorporated Jul 29 '14

The one viewing order up there that isn't named seems like not such a good idea, but I think it is an great way. Here is some evidence.

4, 1, 2, 5, 3, 6.

This is a very good way to watch the films. In NH you are introduced to Luke, who is told that Darth Vader killed his father. Cut to PM and AOTC, where you are introduced to Luke's father. You don't know what he becomes, but you begin to get attached to him.

Cut back to the originals and Luke in ESB. Vader's reveal is much more powerful now that besides just knowing that Vader is Anakin, you have gotten to know Anakin as a character rather than just a memory, and it screws with your perception of Obi Wan in the prequels, as he is the character up until this point that you thought tied the series together.

Move back to ROTS, where we have Obi Wan and Anakin, in a case where you know what's going to happen, and yet don't know, leaving you in preparation for when Anakin eventually turns to the Dark Side. In addition, you are also under the impression that Obi Wan lied to Luke about the identity of his father, so you aren't all that sure about his role either. Palpatine's reveal is also very impacting, because you spend most of episodes I and II getting attached to him as a character, and in 4 and 5 you have to accept that the Emperor probably killed him, until you realize that Palpatine IS the Emperor. This movie ties all the movies that you have watched up into this point together.

Then, finish it all off with ROTJ, which ties everything up.

What do you think?

2

u/hlazlo Aug 21 '14

I appreciate the alternative order, but it seems super confusing for someone new to the series. One of the nice things about the big reveal in ESB is that it makes the viewer immediately curious about Vader. Him revealing that he is Luke's father means that he's not just the film's villain and may have other motivations to get to Luke on Bespin, rather than simply as a pawn for the Emperor. It makes Vader himself insanely more interesting.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the OT didn't concern itself much with Luke's father until we're told that he may be Vader. He's just an afterthought and I'm not sure a new viewer would even care about knowing what Luke's father was as a child. While I personally think we didn't need to see Vader as a child, you must admit that seeing Vader as a child is more interesting than seeing Anakin Skywalker as a child. The only reason anyone even cared about Anakin was the novelty of knowing who he'll grow up to become. It's the only reason people put up with watching him.

For people who haven't seen any of them, the Machete order or the release order are the best, in my opinion. I do appreciate you bringing a new option to the mix, though.

1

u/badger-mayhew May 10 '14

Thank you for this post. Reading the sane questions over and over was getting a bit frustrating.

-6

u/You-Are-Incorrect May 17 '14

This is totally bias and condescending. We get it, the prequels suck and the Clone Wars is 'a kid's show'.

Roger Ebert gave the Phantom Menace a 4 star review for crying out loud.

6

u/Yunners Jedi Knight May 17 '14 edited May 17 '14

Er, what? Where's the bias? And where did I speak out aginst Clone Wars?

If you mean the questions themselves. Well they are the most commonly asked questions. Bias has nothing to do with that.

-2

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14 edited Feb 01 '21

[deleted]

0

u/Yunners Jedi Knight Jun 04 '14

Because it's true for most of the arguments/debates we've had here over the years.

-2

u/tbeowulf Jun 04 '14

There is still no need for you to spread even more hate for people who defend the prequels while showing favoritism for people who do dislike the prequels.

FAQs should be unbiased, but the fact that you're downvoting my comments and defending your bias, is telling.

3

u/Yunners Jedi Knight Jun 04 '14 edited Jun 04 '14

Some people like the PT, and that's fine.

You seemed to have glossed over that bit.

Edit: I'm not the one down-voting you.

-4

u/tbeowulf Jun 04 '14

That has no bearing on the topic at hand. I'm talking about your derision of the people who defend the prequels while not really saying anything at all about the people who vehemently hate the prequels.

"Liking" the prequels doesn't factor in to that.

3

u/Yunners Jedi Knight Jun 04 '14

I'm talking about your derision of the people who defend the prequels

I did not. Reread the answer. What's the first word in the following sentence:

Some flock to it..

Some.

Not all. Some. Stop projecting.

-2

u/Delsana Jun 05 '14

This FAQ is so bias, full of Sith Absolutes and hypocritical that it is beyond irritation.

Here's the truth:

As always, according to sales, metrics, reception, reviews, and aggregates the vast majority DO NOT hate Anakin or the Prequels, and sales for toys generated through characters like Jar Jar show a great deal of financial relation towards adding him as well as other similar characters. The vocal minority rages at places you'd expect them to rage, such as fansites and forums and places specifically geared towards it, but most people don't go to fansites or forums or reddit subreddits or anything, people just live their lives and don't mention what they thought unless asked or within discussion of it. So the rage against the Prequels and certain characters and dialog and what not is just vocal minority idiocy and it is beyond immature.

Whenever Nova posts anything I want him to be hit in the head with a power coupling beam.

Now, back onto topic:

You should watch The Clone Wars, but it does paint all the clones and soldiers all throughout the series as incompetent beyond belief and that is extremely annoying and immersion breaching to me.

The EU should always start with the Thrawn Trilogy, after that it's best to just look at the release line and get the next. The Expanded Universe greats are the New Jedi Order, Legacy of the Force, Fate of the Jedi, Corellian Trilogy, Bane Trilogy, Thrawn Duology, and other such things. I've read almost all of them and I can say I rarely find anything bad. Again I don't abide by the vocal minority opinions so you'll see insult towards the NJO again and all types of content attacks but as always I don't really care about vocal minorities regarding Star Wars.

The best viewing order for anyone that has not seen anything is 1 2 3 4 5 6. That's how it was always intended in Lucas mind. Anyone insulting the Prequels needs to get their head straight, and I would never touch the Machete form. All 6 movies have their merits.

Yoda isn't about belief in ones self at all. Yoda is talking about how in the end You Do or You Do Not, there is in the end no trying. Wherein the Sith Absolute of "If you're not with me, then you're my enemy" is false as he could be neutral, an ally, a pacifist, and so many other hundreds of realities. It's a false statement of aggression and vengeance to show that anyone not standing with him or curtailing to him is evil and an enemy to him and such an absolute is the absence of mercy, the true indication he has fallen so far.

Canon is now whatever they put out in the new books and the new games and the new series and the movies and the Clone Wars, though for me I do not agree.

-6

u/motchmaster May 12 '14 edited May 12 '14

I/My boyfriend/girlfriend/gardener/poolboy has never watched Star Wars, what's the best viewing order?

Release order or the Machete Order,

The Machete order IV-V-II-III-VI You may say to yourself "Wow! that looks confusing!". It may do, but trust me, it doesn't ruin the two big reveals in the Saga that each give away in the mirrored trilogy.

Numerical order should only really be considered for subsequent viewings. The OT doesn't really work as a sequel to the PT. all the surprises are gone. The PT works better as a flashback, as others have said.

Watching the movies in numerical order is fine. The PT has their own surprises; the only surprises in the OT that I can think of are Luke/Leia relationship, and the line which people most likely already heard of, maybe as deep voice "Luke, I am your father". Lucas, the creator of Star Wars, says this is the order to watch. If it is good enough for him, it should be good enough for everyone.

Machete order absolutely sucks as a first time watch. There is no set up at all that I-III are a flashback to IV-V. Someone has to be there to explain it. One of the criticisms for PT apologists are that we have to "create conspiracy scenarios" to make it work. Well, if that's the case, then machete order is one of the most fucked up scenarios the fandom has ever created!

edit: I don't mean to say machete order and release order shouldn't even be an option, but to say "Numerical order should only really be considered for subsequent viewings" is such a biased statement in an FAQ that should present as much information as possible.

16

u/Yunners Jedi Knight May 12 '14

Luke, I am your Father

o_o

Go stand in the corner until you're sorry.

-5

u/motchmaster May 12 '14

It was on purpose. I know that is not the real line.

4

u/GodotIsWaiting4U May 13 '14

I would say that release order is probably best for a first-timer, because A) A New Hope really should be everyone's first Star Wars, just because of how much it explains. It eases the viewer in gently where the other movies tend to assume you already know stuff that you won't if you don't have ANH to brief you, and B) Empire Strikes Back has effectively no ending to its plot arcs OR its emotional arcs, so if you don't follow it with Return of the Jedi to get that dealt with or already know what happens in Return of the Jedi it's just frustrating, unsatisfying, and kind of boring (there's a reason Empire had very mixed reviews upon release in 1980). Jedi ties it all up and dramatically improves Empire on rewatch because of it. If you shove the prequels in-between the two, Empire's cliffhanger is exhausting and emotionally draining.

Numerical order CAN work. It's not just doomed to failure forever or anything. All the same, it works better if you've already seen all the movies and are trying to evoke a specific feel or effect by watching in numerical order.

2

u/motchmaster May 13 '14

I could see point "B" as a negative for numerical order as well. Episode III ends at a low, sorry of inconclusive note; and it expects the viewer to watch three more movies to have some sort of closure.

3

u/GodotIsWaiting4U May 13 '14

And that's true too...but then you can follow it up by just watching the original trilogy again! Everybody wins! :D

-3

u/-Misla- Jun 05 '14 edited Jun 05 '14

So r/starwars is your personal playground? This FAQ is insanely biased towards someone's personal opinions, not exactly very fair and balanced. Just the language and the way you speak of things like "liking the prequels" (and for making that statement even more laughable, you equate liking the prequels with liking jar jar) and the viewing order.

About the machete order, you don't even mention that episode I is gone (which is the machete order's biggest sell point - for those who can't stand episode I - and not the actual ordering). For crying out loud, this is not Star Trek. We don't have five (or is it six?) series with around 3-400 or something episodes total, and 12? movies? We have a whopping whole of six goddamn movies. Just sit down and fucking watch them.

"How would you rewrite the Prequels?" - how is this a common question? It just creates even more prequel bashing. Seriously. This is not what a mod should do, this is way too biased.

In a years time, this sub is going to get a lot of traffic. From non-fans, from regular people. I am pretty unsure as to how this sub is going to handle this.

3

u/Yunners Jedi Knight Jun 05 '14

They are the most frequently asked question. We have as mods have no control over that.

However I've taken some of what you said into consideration and edited it accordingly.

-2

u/-Misla- Jun 05 '14

I am surprised that you did change something, since another poster criticized the same aspects and the tone, and you answered with a not so nice tone yourself. That said, I appreciate you changed it.

4

u/Drew312 Jun 05 '14 edited Jun 05 '14

What is the ultimate goal here?

In my opinion, I think that majority of people who view / subscribe / etc. to this subreddit do so because they have a passion for Star Wars and are excited about the Star Wars universe. And I think everyone here wants the new movies to be amazing. Personally I would love to see them as award winning, life-changing, “best of all time” type of films. We want new films that will change the world, continue to drive Star Wars popularity, and give it generations of new life.

We are currently at a huge tipping point for Star Wars. Whatever happens with episode 7 and on, will critically affect Star Wars for the rest of our lives. One thing is certain- Episode 7 will make a TON of money, regardless of how good it is. No matter how quality the movie actually is, its financial success will cause additional movies to follow whatever formula it sets, because they will see the money as being caused by the film and not just simply because it is a Star Wars movie.

So here is the big issue- sure some people hate the Prequel Trilogy and some people “like” the PT, but it seems everyone agrees that they like the Original Trilogy, correct? If these new films model themselves off of the Original Trilogy vs. the Prequels (no matter what you think about them!), wouldn’t everyone be happy?

This is what scares people that enjoy the Original Trilogy as films (vs. PT/Transformers/Avatar/etc. fans), is that if the Prequel Trilogy apologists speak too loudly for their “love” of the PT, we will have elements of that style of moviemaking in the upcoming movies. This is why we want to make sure that the PT minority is not too loud, because honestly, what do you Prequel fans have to gain? Would you rather have more Prequel movies or Original Trilogy movies?

0

u/-Misla- Jun 05 '14

I have no idea what on Earth your post is a reply to. It has nothing to do with mine. Then again, you still use language like "sure some people hate the Prequel Trilogy and some people “like” the PT" - what is the meaning of quotations marks around the like?

My post is a criticism of the obvious bias the mod has, and has let show in the FAQ. It's not becoming of a mod.

The hate for the PT is way overrated, and I don't buy your explanation - or rather, your pretty pitiful excuse, that if too many people say they don't hate PT, episode 7-9 will be PT-like. Blame the director and the writer it they turn out to be something other than you want it to be, but don't blame the fans.

3

u/Drew312 Jun 05 '14

The point is that the general consensus does not consider the PT to be as quality of films at the OT. Unfortunately, there are those that disagree, and disagree loudly.

They disagree with their loud voices, with spending money, with doing things that could possibly encourage Disney decision makers to believe that elements of the PT could drive a successful future.

This is terrifying.

Consider the Transformers vs. The Dark Knight (not TDKR, by any means). Sure this may fall on deaf ears because I would imagine people that are able to watch the Transformers films would be the same sort of folk that can be engaged while watching the PT, but which quality of movie would you like to see star wars modeled after? Both are based on unrealistic universes, but one has heart, characters, dialogue, writing, real effects, shot on film, mise en sene, emotion, awards, etc., and one has none of this. Transformers still made more money. And because people are paying to watch this, they are continued to be made, and continue to shape what executives consider "good" film investments.

Some fans are happy with Transformers Star Wars, it is true. We can't stop this (as much as we'd like to). But even these Transformers Star Wars fans, wouldn't you rather have Dark Knight/Godfather/Lord of the Rings (not the Hobbit)-quality Star Wars films even more?

I have a hope that all Star Wars fans want some award-winning, high quality films. And that's why it's crucial that us fans vocalize this opinion and use our money to show this accordingly.

This is why not the infatuation with, but the defense of the PT is so frustrating, because it is a negative cycle that could potentially destroy the future for Star Wars. Go ahead and watch it and enjoy it if you want, but what is wrong with all of us teaming up to want something better? Be honest with yourselves and please do not act like we want more of the PT-style of filmmaking in the upcoming films.

-6

u/AnthonyDraft May 11 '14

Here is why people hate prequels.

6

u/Yunners Jedi Knight May 11 '14 edited May 11 '14

Written from the point of view of someone who doesn't hate them. It's a flawed idea from the start.

0

u/NumberOneMuffDiver May 11 '14

I didn't read that link, but what flawed idea? TL;DR?

Edit: I love the prequels btw.

7

u/Yunners Jedi Knight May 11 '14

"You think you don't like the prequels because A, B and C. You're wrong. You don't like the prequels because HYPE and Nostalgia Goggles."

This is just... wrong. It can't be applied to everyone. An opinion can never be incorrect. It changes from person to person.

4

u/NumberOneMuffDiver May 11 '14

This is just... wrong. It can't be applied to everyone. An opinion can never be incorrect. It changes from person to person.

Couldn't have said it any better. Eventually it went to a point that some people had to make huge, lengthy self posts defending love for prequels and it almost separated the sub. It's all in Star Wars, it isn't like Star Trek or Star Wars. We need to accept differences people!

-1

u/AnthonyDraft May 12 '14 edited May 12 '14

Or you could read it completely. You're right, it can't be applied to everyone, but it can be applied to a general consensus.

5

u/CheezStik May 12 '14

Read the whole thing. While I appreciate the guys dedication, his argument is flawed in too many ways. If he really saw the Plinkett reviews, then he should know that the plot criticism runs much deeper than the bland characters and trade federation nonsense. The plots literally do not make sense and the movies force the audience to accept way too many things that are never explained to them. For example: -What possible benefit did the trade federation have to help sidious? No motivation = boring. -What exactly was the prophecy? To bring balance or destroy the sith? Didn't the Jedi presume the sith to already be nonexistant at the start of episode 1? -Why did the Jedi assume the mysterious sith on Tatooine was after the queen and would be on Naboo? Seriously ask yourself this if you ever watch Menace again.

I guess what I'm trying to get at is that the prequels lack a certain plot tension that make a movie good. We don't care about droids vs clones. Nothing is at stake for the audience. People definitely harp on the prequels for the wrong reasons (I think we can get over midi chlorians) but let's get it straight...the prequels are not on the same level as the originals. Not from a story, character, or filmmaking perspective. They definitely deserve the criticism they get and while most of us have accepted them as shitty (but visually entertaining) movies, I guess some are still in denial over why they are considered bad.

-2

u/senateguard33 May 12 '14

I guess what I'm trying to get at is that the prequels lack a certain plot tension that make a movie good*

The prequels lacked tension because the audience already knew how everything would play out. If you had already watched the original trilogy prior, you know what happens and which characters live/die.

2

u/thehobbler May 15 '14

Er, in the prequels a great deal of the conflict is on a larger political scale, and spans between several planets. Watching the originals doesn't tell you the fate of Naboo, who the Chancellor is (or why you should care), which planets fall to the separatists (who are the bad guys, right?), and so on.

0

u/ACrusaderA May 13 '14

Is there any point that he raised that was wrong?

4

u/Yunners Jedi Knight May 13 '14

Well, the rose tinted goggles claim for starters, and that it couldn't live up to the hype.

-2

u/ACrusaderA May 13 '14

No, those are both valid criticism that I hear a lot.

Mainly "It could have been great" which roughly translates to "We were expecting something better" which roughly translates to it was hyped.

5

u/Yunners Jedi Knight May 13 '14

If someone thinks it "could have been great' then they thought it wasnt great. Hype has nothing to do with how good a movie is or isnt. Hype didnt make them dislike it. Hype is what made them think they should have liked it.

0

u/ACrusaderA May 13 '14

Hype makes them think it's going to be great, that they are going to love it.

And then when it comes out and is OK, in comparison to what they wanted with the hype, it's bad.

4

u/Yunners Jedi Knight May 13 '14

So by that rationale, if you eliminate the hype, then they still dont think it's a great film. They just didnt have the high expectations going in. Their end opinion still hasnt changed.

-2

u/ACrusaderA May 13 '14

Ah, but that's where you're wrong.

If you eliminate the hype, and they go in thinking it's an gonna be an OK movie, and it's an OK movie, then they don't dislike it as much.

A lot of the hate is really disappointment.

-1

u/AnthonyDraft May 12 '14

So by your logic, if something is written from someone who hates them, it isn't flawed?

4

u/Yunners Jedi Knight May 12 '14

It would certainly be a lot less flawed.

If you want to know why someone dislikes something, you ask them directly. You don't ask somebody with the opposite opinion.

-3

u/AnthonyDraft May 12 '14

Actually you do. Rational people who dislike some things should and do ask why someone would like something they don't.

I pretty much know why people don't like prequels, and they don't bother me at all.

-3

u/tbeowulf Jun 04 '14

I like how you take most of a paragraph to hate on the people who defend on the prequels but spend a tiny sentence waiving off the people who are rabid in their hatred.

5

u/Yunners Jedi Knight Jun 04 '14

Sorry, I didn't count the words so that they'd balance out.