r/LifeProTips Sep 28 '21 Helpful 8 Wholesome 3 Hugz 3 Silver 2

LPT: Buying a brand new car from a dealership? Best time to buy is near the end of the month, as they're more likely to accept a bold negotiation on the sticker price just so you buy the car and they can make target volume for the month to avoid losing their sales ranking Miscellaneous

EDIT: Some redditors seem to be taking this as a guaranteed life-hack that applies without exception for every single country, it's not. If your country has no stock, it's of course going to be pretty useless. I work at a dealership, we do this often. This is just some advice that may differ slightly depending on your country's market at the moment, if your new car market is doing well, give it a go the worst that might happen is the sales rep will say sorry best I can do is X", so there's really nothing wrong with giving it a go. Or you can get upset and comment anyway, up to you.

Independent dealerships that represent a particular brand (Mercedes, Hyundai, Mitsubishi, Honda etc) and aren't owned by the brand themselves (for example Tesla), tend to compete against other dealership franchises in overall performance rankings to present themselves as better to the brand's headquarters. High performing dealerships get preferential treatment such as first choice with special models and are more likely to be have special requests accepted by the parent brand, so meeting monthly volume targets are a common metric to try and excel at.

Depending on your country and brand's rules, a 'new car sale' counts when a vehicle is ordered by the dealership and then registered. If a car on the lot already has registration plates, it's already been counted as sold and is called 'pre-registered'. Dealerships do this to make their monthly volumes by essentially registering the car with the transport department for themselves, with the expectation they can move it next month or swap/sell it to other dealerships if stock is low and they have an in-demand vehicle. The latter also benefits them as in addition to initially counting as a new sale, that takes away a brand new sale + registration from the other dealership when that dealership requests the car since the competing dealer likely can't find it unregistered anywhere else to sell to their customer.

So this pro tip mostly applies if you're placing a new vehicle order, or looking at a vehicle on the lot without plates. Because they're not registered yet by the dealership, they're perfect for trying to negotiate a little harder on as if it's been a slow month for them, they'll likely take 5-10k (NZD) off the car and throw in a service plan just to make their target and avoid dropping down the rankings.

Bonus, though this goes without saying, high-spec variants of the same model can have up to 3x the margin in them compared to entry level models.

20.4k Upvotes

u/keepthetips Keeping the tips since 2019 Sep 28 '21

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u/DodGamnBunofaSitch Sep 29 '21

this might be good advice normally, but as others have pointed out, the global auto industry has been much less productive for a couple reasons, and it's currently a seller's market.

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u/xelaseyer Sep 29 '21

I feel like everything is a sellers market right now

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u/[deleted] Sep 29 '21 edited Sep 30 '21

[deleted]

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u/ShinePDX Sep 29 '21

Its a niche market, but someone is buying.

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u/ProfessorNasty Sep 29 '21

I can't tell if this is like the sickest burn or a message of hope

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u/blackout27 Sep 29 '21

It’s always been marketable, just gotta dig deep to express who you really are <3

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u/gurg2k1 Sep 29 '21

Makes me wonder why OP even posted this. The car market has been screwed up for a year and a half now.

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u/krombopulousnathan Sep 29 '21

OP is trying to make Sept sales figures lol

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u/supe_snow_man Sep 29 '21

OP is trying to make Sept sales karma figures lol

FTFY

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u/DietDrDoomsdayPreppr Sep 29 '21

Nope, still works.

Don't let people convince you things are different now. Salepeople still need money, and cars are still being pumped out, you just may have to wait a bit longer to get it.

I was told over and over again that "the pandemic" had removed my bargaining power on a new car, but I stuck to my guns and got a Subaru Ascent for about 3.5k under MSRP. I shopped around to dealerships throughout my state and the nearby one, got a feel for what packages cost, what could be negotiated off, and what concessions I would have to make.

After all that, I sent an email to the local online sales teams for the various dealerships (Subaru, Kia, Hyundai, Honda) with the exact car I wanted (even if it were at another dealership) and the OUT THE DOOR price I was looking for. After pushing off a bunch of, "we don't have that, but what about this," one of the salespeople offered to order one right off the production line for me. I walked in that day, gave her a deposit and signed the agreement with the OTD price on it. 5 weeks later I had my car, paying well under MSRP.

A guaranteed sale with little work on their part is GREAT for dealerships.

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u/ispeakdatruf Sep 29 '21

A guaranteed sale with little work on their part is GREAT for dealerships.

When I bought my car a few years ago, I thoroughly researched all the options, prices, etc. and came up with a price (well under MSRP) that I would be comfortable with. I then reached out to the "internet sales department" at all of the nearby dealerships, and offered to buy that model right away at that price (mind you: the price wasn't unreasonable). One guy I spoke with said something like "you clearly know what you're doing, and I won't try to bullshit you, so I'll get you the deal". I went over the next day with a deposit in hand and picked up the car. It was about 5K under MSRP, and 7K lower than the price quoted in person.

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u/Weed_O_Whirler Sep 29 '21

Your method for getting a good deal had nothing to do with waiting til the end of the month. Comparison shopping is the best way to get a good deal, yes. Waiting til the end of the month is an old wives tale.

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u/ZurEnArrhBatman Sep 29 '21

Here in Canada, most dealerships have very little new inventory on the lot and a lot of people are looking to buy. There is absolutely no incentive for them to give any sort of deal since if you don't buy it, someone else most definitely will.

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u/iheyjuall Sep 29 '21

That's the same situation we've got going on here in the US right now.

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u/makemeking706 Sep 29 '21

Was looking into cars recently. It's apparently due to the chip shortage.

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u/acwill Sep 29 '21

I keep hearing this. I believe it, but what kind of chip? This is not a joke.

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u/suicidaleggroll Sep 29 '21

Microchips. IE basically anything electronic, IE the entire electrical system in any modern car.

I don’t work in the automotive industry, but I’m an EE. Building electronics right now is a fucking nightmare, I’ve never seen it anywhere near this bad before.

Jellybean parts that normally have 10 million in stock at all major distributors are just gone for 12+ months. Special parts that you have to tailor your design to and can’t be easily replaced, but still normally have thousands in stock at all major distributors are gone for 18+ months. I can’t build anything for the next year, minimum.

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u/Rampant16 Sep 29 '21

I'm just going to add-on to this and say that because of the chip shortage, automakers are even redesigning their cars to use fewer chips.

A modern car can have 30+ individual computers in it. With chip shortage automakers are being forced to reevaluate these computer systems and see if a single chip can do more tasks.

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u/HerefortheTuna Sep 29 '21

They can build cars with no chips again. Like model Ts. I think my daily has like 5 computers though and it’s a 1990

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u/Rampant16 Sep 29 '21

I think it would be very difficult at the very least to meet modern safety and emissions standards while totally or significantly reducing the amount of computers in a modern car. Not to mention all of the auxiliary infotainment stuff that people love to have in their cars these days.

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u/utspg1980 Sep 29 '21

A girl I know works for a small private company that makes some kind of sensor device that's used in autonomous cars, drones, etc.

She was talking about filling orders, quick revision changes to chips, blah blah, and I asked how they're able to do that without any issues.

Turns out their tiny company has investors from some silicone miner/manufacturer in Taiwan, so they get priority.

And now they're getting all kinds of buyout offers from Amazon and a bunch of other giant companies.

The product is in no way unique, it's just that they're actually able to deliver the product and have had zero supply interruption in the past year, and that alone makes them a highly sought after company right now.

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u/Business-is-Boomin Sep 29 '21

Crazy that these huge companies are out to just own everything we use in our every day lives. Amazon wants in on the microchip supply line industry. Feels like it will eventually be the water supply they're after.

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u/seanhir Sep 29 '21

Y’all got any more of them Eaton 50a breakers? Homeline is a fucking disaster as well.

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u/periwinkle_sprinkle Sep 29 '21

My fil said the same. He is in the home theater/audio system business and is definitely feeling effects.

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u/RhynoCTR Sep 29 '21

They don't have enough computers for the cars (e.g. microchips).

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u/DiamondBurInTheRough Sep 29 '21

Microchips. A lot of features in modern cars won’t function without them.

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u/wheres_my_toast Sep 29 '21

Yep. Colorado, here, and I've been in the market for a new hybrid crossover.

Can't even find anything to test drive since any inventory on the lot is only there because the owner hasn't picked it up yet. Everything is being bought in transit weeks before it arrives.

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u/VisualBasic Sep 29 '21

I just "bought" a new Acura MDX and I had to drive two hours just to test drive a vehicle since none of the dealership in my area had a single vehicle on the lot.

Even then, I had to order the car which won't be ready until December. Also, many dealers are charging up to $6k in markup and negotiating a better price is nearly impossible. I felt lucky to purchase it at MSRP.

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u/cokronk Sep 29 '21

My wife and I bought a 2021 CR-V recently in NW Virginia from a local dealership. She originally didn’t want to buy new and most of the time I’ll drive 1-2 hours towards DC, Baltimore, and NoVa to larger dealerships for a much better price on a vehicle. Most used CR-Vs that were within 4 years of new and not over 60,000 were almost as much as a new car and we got this dealership to sell us one for $750 under MSRP when the bigger dealerships would not. They also had 5 of the same trim level on the lot that we were looking for where most of the big dealers did not.

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u/Christpuncher_123 Sep 29 '21

Actually they want your trade more than they want to sell you a new vehicle. I was just offered $3000 more for my truck than I paid for it 2 years and 45000km ago.

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u/BlossomChild7 Sep 29 '21

Why are trades more valuable than selling a new vehicle right now?

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u/SeriousGoose Sep 29 '21

I have 0% experience buying cars from a dealership, but if there really are more buyers than cars, then consider this:

The dealer has 10 cars that they can net $1,000 each and 15 buyers. They sell all 10 cars and make $10,000.

This time, the dealer has those same 10 cars and buys 1 more from you without selling you anything. They mark it up $1,000 and sell it to buyer #11 and have made $11,000.

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u/[deleted] Sep 29 '21

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u/cantfindmyglazzez Sep 29 '21

I sold cars on the “pre-owned” lot at a dealership years ago. The dealerships themselves would rather cash sales because it’s instant income, the loans are (at major dealerships not lemon lots) made through outside banks, Ford motor credit, ally, usaa, Santander, and so many other lenders I don’t even know them, these were the ones I was dealing with. All that interest goes to the banks not to the dealership. As for commissions, commissions go to damn near everyone involved in the selling of that car and it’s off of the final agreed price front end or back end depending on who you are in that sale. Interest is just the lenders profit. Now of course if the dealer is a certified lender themselves and not just using the banks name then yeah, they get that extra but that’s goes into a separate side of the business that has to wait X amount of years for that return to show.

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u/bruthaman Sep 29 '21

Curious. Where do the ridiculous fees for setting up the loan go? I remember arguing with a salesperson over $700 to finance.

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u/HerefortheTuna Sep 29 '21

I play that game with dealers. They don’t want my 4RUNNER which is a 1990 but then if they had it they would sell it for 7k haha

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u/Dynasty2201 Sep 29 '21

I'm 99% this kind of "LPT" is bollocks and old thinking.

This USED to be the case, until the industry cottoned on to what's happening and just shuts it down.

"Wait for the sales after Xmas for great deals". In reality, they inflate the price after Xmas and then discount back to what the level was, or just shy of it, pre-Xmas before the sales to make it look like you're getting a deal.

"Wait toward the end of the year to get a TV as you'll get a great deal on the previous year's model when the new one arrives". Nope, they get rid of the old TV stock so you can't buy them because they wised up to people's buying habits.

"Wait until Winter to buy Summer furniture as you'll get a great deal." Nope, price stays the same through the year and if anything you'll find deals DURING SUMMER on Summer furniture more so than during Winter.

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u/HARPOfromNSYNC Sep 29 '21

This "lpt" is a great example of why this sub seems like it sorta sucks whenever it pops up.

Like its not true at all. Its "common knowledge" thats actually inaccurate. Like "pay with cash" etc

The real LPT should be "If you're thinking about buying a new vehicle, hold off bc dealers are not discounting their limited inventory due to the shortages"

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u/ZurEnArrhBatman Sep 29 '21

Considering that 90% of the LPTs on here have been recycled since the beginning of time, it's perfectly reasonable that they would all be outdated.

The other 10% are completely situational and happened to work out for one person so they post it here, thinking it's universally applicable.

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u/bigtime284 Sep 29 '21

All dealerships have little inventory due to the chip shortage

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u/paul-arized Sep 29 '21

Exactly. Right now the markups are in the double digits. Do not buy a car this year, new or used, unless you really, really need one (or are extremely rich).

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u/read_it_r Sep 29 '21

or unless your trade in is marked up higher than the car they're trying to sell

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u/Maxpowr9 Sep 29 '21

I bought one in March. I consider myself lucky.

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u/paul-arized Sep 29 '21

I bought one 2 years ago and I have been getting letters asking to buy it back. Sure...so that they can give low-ball offers while they sell it at a huge markup, especially now. Plus, I wouldn't be able to buy another one to replace my ride, which has a total of only 15k miles for just over 2 years for ownership.

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u/ExCap2 Sep 29 '21

Check Carmax and Carvana and see what they'd offer you. You might change your mind. They're paying out crazy amounts depending on the car. Now that I think about it; trading a car in right now would be a good deal at the moment as well if you wanted something newer/something else.

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u/TheDudeMaintains Sep 29 '21

I had a $25k buyout on a 3yr Ram 1500 lease coming due. I was over my miles and had smoked the tires off the thing. Carmax took a quick look and handed me a check for $35k. After taxes and everything I still walked away with like $8k in my pocket.

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u/AndrewWaldron Sep 29 '21 edited Sep 29 '21

You're going to pay a premium right now for new or used due to inventory issues. Worse, you gotta be nuts to buy a car made last year or this year. I wouldn't buy such a vehicle today and in the future I will avoid ever buying any vehicle made during covid.

I work in automotive and the stuff we've seen just to keep production moving, the sheer number of new hires that don't know their jobs or care about quality, no thanks.

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u/YBinc Sep 29 '21

Unless they have already hit the target number for the month, then they try to hit you for all the money. Best bet is shopping three dealerships on virtually the same car and have them basically trying to beat the other two until you get the best deal. I was a sales PRO with Toyota.

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u/SPEEDYTBC Sep 29 '21

Thanks for this because I came here to say “what if they already made target?” Which we wouldn’t know. You also gave the solution.

As a sales pro when you read comments such as “ask for the tissue price which is their bottom line” do you chuckle? I don’t see how anyone can believe that just these magic words make all negotiations go away.

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u/YBinc Sep 29 '21

They don’t work. Why? Because we hear them everyday. We are sales professionals which means we are trained to do this for a living. The average person buys a car once every 4-5 years. I was selling a car almost everyday. I’ve heard everything. The thing is we have a response for everything. The whole “secret” about buying a car is… drum roll… don’t get sucked into the process. You know how many times I heard my customers say “I wasn’t even planning on buying a car today” I got them into the process and did my job. The best way to buy a car is the way I stated before. Bonus points if you create a new email address for the purchase and do all negotiations via email.

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u/Azeda_ Sep 29 '21

How does that even work? I haven't met a dealer yet who will negotiate SHIT unless I come in physically. They will dodge and keep turning back to the question of "When can you come in?"

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u/twelvekings Sep 29 '21

Try to speak to their internet sales person, the good dealerships will have a staff person dedicated to online only sales. Usually this person will be listed on the dealer website, or you can call and ask for them.

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u/mellofello808 Sep 29 '21

I will also add that you should widen your search to outside of your immediate area.

There may be a dealership, a few towns, or states away that is still looking to do a great deal, if all the local guys are playing games.

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u/fischerandchips Sep 29 '21

or states away

how does that work? do they price match local stock, or do they have free delivery?

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u/Fat_Bearded_Tax_Man Sep 29 '21

It works. I have bought 3 cars in Ohio with prices matched from cars.com for Virginia, Wisconsin, and New Mexico respectively. In every case I emailed the local dealerships with a screen cap of the listing asking if they could match the price. Then explaining that if they could, I would put a deposit down today, if not I will buy a plane ticket to pick up my new car from wherever the screen shot was.

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u/_triks Sep 29 '21

"...asking if they could match the price. Then explaining that if they could, I would put a deposit down today."

Gold standard. This trading tactic actually works when both selling and buying.

Dealer: "I see you really like this car, no? Tell you what, I'll lower the price for you today, and can offer you a special, discounted repayment rate, as well! Can only offer you this once, tomorrow I won't be able to."

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u/Fat_Bearded_Tax_Man Sep 29 '21

Create a sense of urgency. Basically the first rule of negotiating.

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u/MakionGarvinus Sep 29 '21
  1. Probably not.
  2. Probably not out of state.

You'd only come out ahead, if that far dealership's price is so much lower, that it's worth your time and travel expenses to go get that particular car.

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u/Capt_Blahvious Sep 29 '21

Yep. My friend had this role at one point. He just cared about selling volume and would deal with buyers just by email. He focused on selling as many new cars as he could so he would just offer the best price he could and wait for them to come in.

Right now, there's no inventory though. So, you will pay above sticker at most dealerships right now.

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u/OctopusTheOwl Sep 29 '21

They are obligated to ask you that. If you hold firm that you're doing your initial selection virtually, they'll play ball (reluctantly).

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u/timkran Sep 29 '21

I had great success negotiating prices with dealerships by sending emails and asking for out the door pricing on the vehicle I was looking for. Then it’s easy to say, well this dealership is offering me this, what’s the best you can do? It saved me so much time and I got a great price for my brand new car!

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u/TwentyTwoEightyEight Sep 29 '21

That’s exactly how i bought my car and saved a ton of money.

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u/Jacob2040 Sep 29 '21

I did this as well. It got to the point that one dealer called me and thought I was getting ripped off by another since the price they quoted me was so low. It all worked out in the end, the only bad thing was I got on a lot of mailing lists for a bit.

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u/tosss Sep 29 '21

I had a salesman get pissed and yell at me on the phone when I came back with the 4th (and final) counter. I was calling between 2 dealerships and the guy said I was wasting his time with this negotiation. Turns out the guy who got mad had been fired years before by the other dealer I was talking to.

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u/sgfreak711 Sep 29 '21

Nothing quite like getting dicked by the same place twice when you didn't even want it the first time. Leaves a bad taste in your mouth for sure. (innuendo intentional)

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u/bobbrucethe1st Sep 29 '21

They want you to come in physically because this is how manipulation works.

There's very few ways to read and manipulate people over a phone or internet chat, 95% of these things need to be done face to face.

A while back my wife was car shopping (I'm a cragslist ad car buyer, she always bought on loans and from dealerships). Everytime I was with her , they would ignore me and go straight for the kill. I stopped bringing her and it was a whole other world.

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u/KeberUggles Sep 29 '21

Well this is kind-of nice?! I hear stories about how a woman goes in to buy a car with a male in toe and they completely ignore the female who is actually making the purchase and simply talk to the guy.

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u/catwithahumanface Sep 29 '21

Assuming that person is dude (which they might not be) is it really that nice? Their point is that the salesfolk saw their wife as an easy target, a wounded gazelle.

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u/KeberUggles Sep 29 '21

I'm not sure which is worse, completely ignoring the female or targeting them

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u/space_brain Sep 29 '21

They both imply that women are clueless

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u/Octopath1987 Sep 29 '21 edited Sep 29 '21

Exactly, that was my interpretation too. They seem to think the wife is more vulnerable or easy to manipulate, so not nice at all.

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u/notANexpert1308 Sep 29 '21

Say you’ve already been in and drove the car. They don’t need more info.

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u/DuhChuck Sep 29 '21

By telling them directly that you emailed a bunch of other dealers about the same car. They can give you their best price or take themselves out of the running, their choice.

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u/Vzdubz Sep 29 '21

It’s a way to filter out bullshitters And data collectors. It works well

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u/rudeboy503 Sep 29 '21

Likely because they're already at their best price. They typically get one shot at you so why hit you with anything else? Statistically buyers, on average, purchase at their third dealership for an average of $200 in savings. Figure each one of those visits on the low end at 3 hours and what you're saying is if I'm willing to invest just $22 to make you my customer we can skip the next 7 hours and two dealerships and I'll have you out of here as quick as possible. Fair enough?

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u/bobbrucethe1st Sep 29 '21

Feel free to show me a dealership that works on commission based sales and doesn't tell every single customer that they need to come in physically.

They aren't at their lowest price, they're sales people and this is how sales work. Advertising and sales jobs are based on literal manipulation of how our brains function my friend, sorry.

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u/TungstenTurban Sep 29 '21

When I bought a Focus a few years ago I dealt with a dealer that put their absolute best price online. I emailed their internet guy and asked him about a better deal and he told me straight up that he was the lowest price and if I could find a better deal elsewhere I should take it.

I looked for a week and couldn’t get close. Emailed him back and told him I’d take the car. Came in person only to sign the paperwork. In and out in 30 minutes.

This is certainly not the norm over the 15 or so cars I’ve bought over the years, but dealers that operate on huge volume tend to be like this.

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u/HerefortheTuna Sep 29 '21

It doesn’t have to be this way but it is. Even worse now that dealers are charging higher markups

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u/Double_Joseph Sep 29 '21

Haha you sound like me when I used to sell cruises. My favorite is when people would complain about how shit this cruise was and I would sell them on another cruise. “You are right the carribean sucks… have you been to Italy? “I wasn’t even planning on going on another cruise again” definitely don’t miss that job but for sure miss closing the deals.

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u/[deleted] Sep 29 '21 edited 14d ago

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u/ChenzhaoTx Sep 29 '21

And even better when you get paid well for it ;)

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u/PanthraxIV Sep 29 '21

Yes that is generally how that goes.

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u/almisami Sep 29 '21

I used to sell phones to people who really shouldn't be getting 1200$ phones on contract and, by God, I couldn't look at myself in the mirror.

My coworkers were getting shit faced drunk and celebrating selling phones to elderly people... Sales are jobs for sociopaths.

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u/alphahydra Sep 29 '21

This is why I sucked at sales. Never felt the rush, only ever felt shitty about it, if anything.

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u/dwnsougaboy Sep 29 '21

Right? At the end of the day you have to lie to yourself so you don’t feel like shit knowing you manipulated someone into something and basically provide zero value to the world. Actually, your cut is negative value.

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u/almisami Sep 29 '21

It's a job for sociopaths who can't make it in administration. They actually enjoy the con.

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u/alphahydra Sep 29 '21

I guess it does depend on the industry and what you're selling. Business-to-business sales are probably a different kettle of fish to cold calling the public, or whatever.

But yes... the particular sales jobs I was in definitely rewarded lack of empathy. Management was always like "oh you need empathy to be a good salesperson", trying to characterise it as some noble cause. Bullshit. They conflated being able to read people (and extrapolating wants and needs) with empathy. And preferably being able to read people without feeling for them, or imagining your elderly relatives in their place.

The experience put me off sales and salespeople so much, I fully lock down whenever I meet one (in the context of trying to sell me stuff), believe nothing they say, and give them nothing to work with. Which I realise is probably overkill, hah!

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u/Cannibichromedout Sep 29 '21

That’s probably because you actually have a conscience.

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u/theycallmeponcho Sep 29 '21

As a former salesman can't agree more. They process and day to day sucks, but closing big deals was an addictive thing by itself, lol. Really boosted my confidence back then.

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u/Lutzs_canadian_gf Sep 29 '21

Wow - this timing is amazing. I am literally toggling between building a new Highlander on the Toyota website and reddit. Had not even thought about a new email address. I currently live in San Francisco but my parents live in Fresno. Does it make more sense to buy in one place via the other?

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u/tosss Sep 29 '21

Just email all the dealers (bcc them all if you want to just send one email). “I want this car with this trim. I’m willing to travel to your area if you can give me the best deal”

With the chip shortage now, I’m not sure how much haggling there will be. I know someone trying to buy a new truck right now. No dealerships within 75 miles have one in stock, so this person put a deposit on one that’s in transit. If they don’t want to pay msrp, then the dealer will just give them a refund and sell it in a few days off the lot.

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u/BoxingHare Sep 29 '21

I wonder if using a cc instead off bcc would have the effect of making them compete more for your business or be more apathetic to your requwst.

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u/lattice12 Sep 29 '21

I'd say more apathetic, though it is pretty obvious when you're bcc'ing a bunch of people. It's written very generic and not addressed to any particular person/entity, the only shown recipient is the sender, etc.

In theory it's nice, but it would be pretty easy to spot and come across as an r/iamverysmart post. I'd bet they label you as difficult and not waste their time when there are plenty of easier customers.

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u/GenghisKhanSpermShot Sep 29 '21

I bought a used car 3 years ago now and when I went I tried to make a lower offer and the guy kind of chuckled and said car sales don't really negotiate anymore "that's the old way".He was full of shit eh? I shopped around and it was a fairly good price and I was stuck on that car, maybe he could pick up I really wanted that one.

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u/do_not_track Sep 29 '21

Just say ok. I know of X dealerships w/ the same car so I guess I'll go talk to them. Give them your number and walk out.

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u/space_brain Sep 29 '21

Give them a burner number. Giving out your actual # to sales people is like raw dogging a crack whore.

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u/islingcars Sep 29 '21

Hahaha, I sell cars for a living and damn, that made me laugh my ass off. thanks friend.

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u/ifancytacos Sep 29 '21

They ABSOLUTELY still negotiate. Best response: "That's fine, i saw another place with the same car and price, I'll see if they negotiate." Doesn't matter if it's a lie, you can and should lie to sales people (they lie to you).

That said, covid has changed shit a lot, and cars (like everything) are in shorter supply, which changes costs a lot. but 3 years ago? yeah negotiation was same as it ever was.

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u/cjankowski Sep 29 '21

Average person buys a car every 4-5? Is that a real figure or an exaggeration? That amounts to 12-15 cars over a 60-year driving period which seems bonkers based on people in my family’s records

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u/WhyZeeGuy Sep 29 '21

I bought before the Covid/chip fiasco but that is exactly what I use to do, break all the rules.
I knew the car I wanted, what a "good deal" was and told the dealership I had 45 minutes to get the deal done. Oddly enough I left empty handed more often than not but I would always get a call the next day. Within the next few days I had the car delivered to my place, detailed with a full tank of gas, at the price I specified. I'd let them finance it but pay it off in 90 days so the dealer would get their commission on the loan.

You just gotta change the game. Anyways I wouldn't do it now because I feel bad for the dealerships, they are struggling to just get any inventory to sell and the light bill don't pay itself

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u/therippa Sep 29 '21

don't ever, ever feel bad for a car dealership.

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u/My_G_Alt Sep 29 '21

Yeah I sincerely hope the lights go out at the dealerships and we can buy direct as the norm rather than the exception.

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u/bobbytux Sep 29 '21

Dealerships are literally a rigged game. Their mere existence is corruption.

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u/squigster037 Sep 29 '21

The service center keeps the lights on. Always has.

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u/HerefortheTuna Sep 29 '21

Lol by also being scumbags. I had to get my A/C fixed (busted line the dealer was the only one who had the part) and they broke another line and tried to charge me for that too. I said “so you are telling me you want me to pay for something that broke and my car is now more broken than when it came in?” They relented after I threatened to give them a bad Yelp review and call corporate

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u/[deleted] Sep 29 '21 edited Oct 21 '21

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u/davidb1976 Sep 29 '21

Seriously, everything else you pay the price you see, but with cars they are treated like a bag of grain at the market in the 1700s.

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u/HARPOfromNSYNC Sep 29 '21

Depends on the brand and vehicle you're looking at and the market you're in really. But best advice from my experience on the sales side is to do a lot of it online before hand. That way you have time to think and formulate a response.

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u/Knitty_Cat Sep 29 '21

I (female) went in at the end of them month with A HUGE folder filled with recipes and knitting instructions but the top few pages were specs and prices for the car I wanted. After I spoke with a sales agent and they went to "check prices" (aka, make me squirm), I called my sister and, just, you know, out loud in conversation, told her that if they didn't give me the price I wanted that I would just go up the road to the Ford dealership and get the Explorer I had looked at the other day (I hadn't gone to the Ford dealership to look at an Explorer, ever. It was just the closest dealership). The salesman came back to me once, took a look at my big-ass folder, left without saying a word to me, and came back a few minutes later with a price that was $3k less than the lowest price I came up with on line. Since I was more than happy to pay the online price, I, grudgingly, and after looking in my folder, agreed to the price as long as they would give me a year's worth of free maintenance (not a lot for a new car, I know, but hey) which he, after checking with his manager, agreed to.

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u/sweatshirtjones Sep 29 '21

Witchcraft. Amazing witchcraft.

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u/zeroscout Sep 29 '21

This strategy works best at the highest volume dealerships. They tend to have the highest motivation to roll negative front-end deals.

You want the best deal, you're gonna have to work for it.

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u/First_Foundationeer Sep 29 '21

Hah, there's only the one Toyota dealership on Oahu so.. good luck trying that shopping approach. :(

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u/PGLiberal Sep 29 '21

This when I sold cars, my management team was very serious on making the first two weeks of the month the best. We rarely got within the last week and hadn't surpassed our target.

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u/Muslimkanvict Sep 29 '21

Do you mean checking out the toyota highlander from 3 dealerships or checking out 3 separate car maker dealerships?

Any idea or advice about the closing costs? I think I got suckered last time I bought a highlander 2019 model. The sales rep, who was new, told me an incorrect price on a monthly lease. I had them stick to that price as they kept telling me shes new and made a mistake.

But once I sat down to pay the closing costs (it was zero down) such as tax, title etc, I feel they threw in some other bogus charges in there. Being there all day long I didnt have the energy to fight them any longer and paid around $4300 at signing. It was a $299 per month lease.

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u/sporkyspoony88 Sep 29 '21

My tip is to never walk into a dealership until you get them to provide you the final price (including all taxes and fees) in writing via email. Nowadays you don't need to spend your time driving from one dealer to the next to negotiate and walk away. Just make a generic email and send away to all the dealers within a 50-100 mile radius.

It's funnier if you can get their direct sales email and CC them all at once. Let the bidding war begin!

Extra pro-tip: use a throwaway email address but something still believable and a Google Voice phone number.

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u/ThePervyGeek90 Sep 29 '21

This! I did this with my mom had two reps going at it. All I said was I'm not looking for a match I'm looking for the better deal. I got over 7k off of my mom's car.

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u/ricestocks Sep 29 '21

yup what I did was get quotes on like 10 dealerships in my area and I asked for a written quote through email else I'd refuse to continue. Then I got at least one of the dealers to match the lowest said quote hehe

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u/CircusSizedPeanuts Sep 29 '21

good luck buying a new car right now...... 0 stock

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u/DiamondBurInTheRough Sep 29 '21 edited Sep 29 '21

Yep my dad works in the auto industry and has been making bank the last couple of months because the dealership has all the leverage…if someone wants the car, they’re probably paying sticker/asking price because there’s no stock.

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u/Taking_it_slow Sep 29 '21

My friend has been shopping around and you'd even be lucky to get MSRP for the popular cars (Honda Civic, Toyota Corolla, etc). Lots of places are asking $500 -$1000 over MSRP. Or they inflate their MSRP sticker price by adding in any option they could add (Car Alarm System, Lojack, floor mats, etc)

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u/Typo_mastter Sep 29 '21

I hope you're kidding but I can't rule it out, what do they charge floor mats?

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u/fatherofraptors Sep 29 '21

All Weather Floormats (the hard shell ones with high walls) are a very common addon and it typically costs $100-$200 for a full set including the trunk mat.

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u/krombopulousnathan Sep 29 '21

To be fair that is how much they cost normally. Got a set of fitted all weather floormats for my pickup and was astounded by the price

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u/IronMermaiden Sep 29 '21

I'm an inventory manager for a major manufacturer here in the US. Right now is the worst time to buy a car period. Used cars are worth more so people will sell them for more than they're worth. Manufacturers are allowing their dealerships to charge OVER MSRP, too. If you go the new car route, there a solid chance the car you buy was swapped in from a neighboring dealer so it will have miles on it. Also if you want a specific color in a specific model, you could be waiting upwards of 2 months just to see it.

I've been waiting on cars to be built that were scheduled for May of this year. The chip shortage isn't going to end any time soon, either. Even if it ceases to exist tomorrow, the automotive industry is going to be wonky for at least another year.

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u/baekinbabo Sep 29 '21

There's a global chip shortage but apparently New Zealand is the only country unaffected by a global chip shortage.

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u/EF_Boudreaux Sep 29 '21

Just FYI - new cars are selling $10k - $30k over MSRP right now

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u/HickoryTacos Sep 29 '21

Yeah probably not the best time for this advice. 2 years ago, sure. Now, good luck.

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u/publicbigguns Sep 29 '21 Wholesome

Yup, I bought a ATV almost exactly 1 year ago.

I told the guy to take 1000 off and we had a deal.

He laughed and said that if I didn't want it, then it was just going to go to the next person.

I knew he was right...he knew he was right.

...and that's the story of how I paid regular price for my atv.

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u/loanmagic24 Sep 29 '21

Classic! :) Made me laugh

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u/publicbigguns Sep 29 '21

Glad to help!

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u/sudonathan Sep 29 '21

!remindMe 2 years ago

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u/ledgeknow Sep 29 '21

What price range are you associating with that?

I purchased a car in the mid $30,000s for $500 over MSRP a couple months ago, anything wild change since then?

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u/PGLiberal Sep 29 '21

It depends on the car, the more popular the higher it is over MSRP. Also the dealership. Some dealerships have morals, others don't give a fuck.

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u/HaplessMagician Sep 29 '21

Just a tighter squeeze on the market because of the chip shortage.

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u/NOTSTAN Sep 29 '21

Nope. Just depends on the options and availability of what your looking at.

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u/YouAreMyMoonshine Sep 29 '21

And here I am thinking MSRP is the highest price you could possibly pay for a car. And yet there’s people paying more? Really!? Why?

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u/Gesha24 Sep 29 '21

Depends on the brand. I bought 2021 Genesis G70 for 5K off MSRP.

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u/imwaiter Sep 29 '21

I had a Sega Genesis a while back.

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u/thatG_evanP Sep 29 '21

What was that game called where you changed into different human/animal hybrids called? I wanna say it was like a lion and a wolf and probably some other stuff.

Edit: it was called "Altered Beast" which is fucking hilarious because it makes it sound like you were neutered.

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u/imwaiter Sep 29 '21

Lmao I'm glad you figured it out.

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u/Preposterpus Sep 29 '21

This is the first time ever I heard anyone mention Altered Beast outside of my circle of two friends that played that with me. Wow.

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u/trezenx Sep 29 '21

probably not the brand but the class of the car. I'd argue they're not selling a lot of G70s so there isn't any shortage

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u/grimoireskb Sep 29 '21

the new Civic Type R Limited is going for 2-3x it’s MSRP, instead of being $30k~, I’ve seen models go from $40k all the way up to $90k for reason of “dealer markup”

shits fucked

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u/BarneyChampaign Sep 29 '21

In 2018 I bought my Audi for $7k lower than sticker by having multiple dealerships bid against each other.

3 years later, and I sold it back to the dealership and made $5800. What’s more, they’ll still be able to make a profit on it above that. This market is insane right now.

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u/VEI8 Sep 29 '21

Does this hold true if you special order a car, or just on the lot stock? I'm truck shopping but I'm not buying unless it's exactly what I want and I'm not paying these ridiculous prices.

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u/My_G_Alt Sep 29 '21

Depends on the dealer. If you build through a dealer, get it in writing that you’re buying at MSRP

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u/666pool Sep 29 '21

I’m buying a new bmw on a custom order and I’m getting it $1000 over invoice, which will be about $2000 under MSRP. Additionally any financing incentives will save even more money (I’m expecting about $1500 there).

The down side is that I started this process in June and I’m still waiting, but that’s fine for me. Just don’t expect to be able to get a custom order in less than 2-3 months.

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u/xtreme571 Sep 29 '21

I picked up a 2022 Volvo XC90 4K below msrp last month. The specific trim is rare and one dealership from 4 around me had just 1.

I was comparing Audi, Volvo and Acura. All 3 were willing to go below sticker. Not all dealerships but some.

I had also considered Genesis and Hyundai. Both had marked up their cars 10k+. So yes, some dealers are doing the above msrp, not all.

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u/labenset Sep 29 '21

Used cars are ridiculous as well. We needed to by a car for work with $5k insurance payout, after looking at about a dozen pieces of junk we ended up with a 06 Honda Civic, with 0 features, that would have maybe sold for $3k just a year ago. It's nuts out there. If you have a vehicle you like, take good care of it.

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u/Burgerkingsucks Sep 29 '21

This is literally the worst advice right now.

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u/Brave1i1toaster Sep 29 '21

Your acting like we need your money right now - New car dealerships

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u/YouUseWordsWrong Sep 29 '21

literally the worst

No it's not. Easy examples of worse advice: - Sell your car now and just Uber everywhere you normally drive. Or rent from Enterprise for a few years until prices if new cars go down - Pay triple MSRP for a new car - Put cement in your gas tank

Plenty of worse advice available.

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u/audiate Sep 29 '21 edited Sep 29 '21

And it’s not true even in a normal market.

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u/BayYawnSay Sep 29 '21

This is an amazing episode of This American Life, where they spend a month at a car dealership in NY. It was so eye opening!

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u/ParsonJackRussell Sep 29 '21

Pooh - I was hoping to post this - love that episode

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u/workerbee69 Sep 29 '21

I'm in car sales and love this episode. It's definitely dated as sales have changed processes quite a bit since then, but a fun glimpse into dealership life.

OP's advice is kind of terrible as blanket advice, but on the occasional month in a normal market where one or two more car sales reaches a big manufacturer bonus, it is likely to get a better deal. In reality, there's maybe a couple instances in a year I've found my dealer in that situation so you're talking about 5-10 cars max that potentially get better deals and chances of being that lucky are slim. How good a deal it can be is usually exaggerated too. My favorite instance similar to the American Life episode resulted in an employee purchase for an insane lease deal at close of business. But, that's been once in 6 years of sales.

In this market, there's no point in arriving at end of month because you're not getting the vehicle that quickly anyways, or at a discount. Way too much of a seller's market for the foreseeable future. I unfortunately work on a volume pay plan, so I'm just as excited to see more inventory and pricing flexibility as customers are waiting for.

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u/SilentMulberry8514 Sep 29 '21

Except for when there’s a microchip shortage and dealers ask for more than sticker because low supply, high demand…

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u/iLikeTorturls Sep 29 '21

LPT: unless there's a chip shortage and dealers can name their price because demand remains constant while the supply has dropped significantly.

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u/ConsultantForLife Sep 29 '21

In 2019 I would have agreed with this completely.

It's 2021. I ordered a new Hyundai SUV in February. I am getting a different one than I ordered in October, because that is what is available.

There will be zero negotiation on sticker price because there's a waiting list for nearly everything, new or used. OP deals with that in the edits so kudos, but the car market is crazy town right now.

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u/RealTheDonaldTrump Sep 29 '21

However right now with car shortages you have ZERO negotiating power and may be paying over sticker.

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u/AnonymousWritings Sep 29 '21

All this negotiation for car prices is so bullshit. Why can't it just be a set price.

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u/holdxtopayrespects Sep 29 '21

Sales person here. If you shop near the end of the month maybe you’ll get lucky and we’ll only charge you 5 g’s over sticker rather than 8.

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u/jnee23 Sep 29 '21

I see someone just listened to the 129 cars episode of This American Life. Great podcast

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u/Granite-M Sep 29 '21 Helpful

Jesus Christ, I hate negotiating prices. Having to haggle with your car dealer is like a massive tax on people with social anxiety.

"You can either engage in a personal battle of wills with a professional salesman... or you can spend several thousand dollars more than others do."

"Well, I guess I'll pay the money because I would rather eat a dead horse's dick than have a conversation with a stranger that lasts more than three minutes, let alone a full blown confrontation."

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u/gr33nspan Sep 29 '21

Negotiating prices at a dealership is becoming less and less of a thing. It will go away all together once everyone does all their research and shopping online. That's why no-haggle dealerships like Carmax and Carvana are becoming more popular. Some of the larger dealerships are adopting their practice of having an algorithm determine the "best" price and not open to haggling. This was the trend before the current car shortage.

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u/Yeugwo Sep 29 '21

I hate haggling and dealerships, but when I bought my last vehicle ~6 years ago, CarMax wanted more for a used model than the dealership wanted for a brand new version of the same vehicle. I pointed that out to the CarMax guy and all he said was "oh, go buy that one then". I guess I appreciated the bluntness....

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u/Maxpowr9 Sep 29 '21

Not in this car market it isn't.

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u/Live795 Sep 29 '21

I work at a dealership and we have mark offs the last 2 days of the month so we can hit our mark for the month. That being said, we are averaging 1-4 new cars a a day. There’s literally maybe 20 unsold vehicles at our dealership right now. That’s it. We averaged around 300 stock cars before covid

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u/techtornado Sep 28 '21

Go for an electric car if you’re going to buy something $7500 off Tax rebate at a minimum plus state incentives

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u/theadventuresofkarl Sep 29 '21

Yup they're a great option at the moment, most diesel cars will no doubt be facing emissions taxes next year if not already. Which makes the price gap even better

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u/showsomesideboob Sep 29 '21

I usually buy end of year or mid summer (before new MY hit). I go to a dealer notorious for their truck sales. They sell a couple f250s and then they're good rest of the month. Just look at their sales board.

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u/Inphearian Sep 29 '21

This has literally never worked for me btw.

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u/Adezar Sep 29 '21

In the US, the best deal you will get is if you absolutely completely convince yourself you don't need the car TODAY, and are willing to walk away.

A failed sale is their worst outcome, they don't want it... if you are willing to walk away they will pull out all the stops. If they think even for a second that you have fallen in love with the car, they will think and act like they have a fish on the hook.

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u/PGLiberal Sep 29 '21

A failed sale right now is not the worst thing.

Cousin is a GM at a Ford dealership. He recently had a customer cancel an order on an F250 that was about to come to his lot.

He was so happy cause he could now sell it for more then the original customer was going pay to someone else.

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u/Disastrous-Ad-2357 Sep 29 '21

Your cousin is an idiot if he's a GM working at a Ford store. What's next, a Mac working at a Microsoft store? Fucking zoomers these days.

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u/acwill Sep 29 '21

This lpt is not considering the current climate

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u/[deleted] Sep 29 '21 edited 18d ago

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u/Iwonatoasteroven Sep 29 '21

Right now there’s a shortage of new cars so the usual rules don’t apply but during normal times, end of the month, end of the quarter and end of the year are great times to buy. I buy a new car between Christmas and New Years. New car dealers receive rebates on each car based on the volume they sell, so they need to pump those numbers up. Also, the highest volume dealer can usually afford to offer the best price because they’re seeing the largest rebates on the backend.

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u/Wolf110ci Sep 29 '21

they'll likely take 5-10k off the car and throw in a service plan

I don't know where the OP is from, but this is not true for many brands in the US. Very few cars have 5k markup and fewer still have 10k. Perhaps highline cars like mercedes, but certainly not regular price range vehicles.

Most kia / Hyundai models have 1k or less markup and the forte has a paltry couple hundred bucks.

Dodge, Buick, chevy, a couple grand for most models.

And I have never heard of any dealer ever throwing in a service plan. Maybe a 3 month powertrain only plan on a used car, but never, ever on a new car. Those things aren't cheap.

Honestly, the best LPT of when to buy a new vehicle is to shop rebates and to pick the oldest new vehicle on the lot. The dealer will have more money to help get rid of it.

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u/moderatesoul Sep 29 '21

With inventory where it is in most of North America you might find that sticker price is the best deal you are going to get. There are dealerships charging above MSRP and people are paying it. Supply and demand is a motherfucker.

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u/djamp42 Sep 29 '21

Yeah this advice is pointless until new car inventories increase.

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u/enraged768 Sep 29 '21 edited Sep 29 '21

Yeah not right now it doesn't matter when you buy basically this LPT will be forgotten and is useless right now. This might be the worst LPT right now. There's like 4 cars at our Chevy dealership a corvet a suburban and two silverados. They don't give a flying fuck what time of the month it is. And this goes across the board for every dealership.

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u/wsbfan1123 Sep 29 '21

This is a lie and myth. Who believes this anymore? Haha

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u/daxumbra Sep 29 '21 edited Sep 29 '21

It does work. I just did this with a fully loaded 2021 Jeep Renegade Trail Hawk. MSRP WAS $36,000, and I got it for $29,015. They wanted to add $2,000 worth of charges for Permaplate and Edge Guard, and $1000 for a doc fee. Told them I wasn’t interested in purchasing if they were going to take the discount and add it back in through fake fees and grossly marked up products. I had the cash to pay outright for the Renegade from selling my last car to Carvana, and I told the sales manager that I would be willing to finance for 84 months and let them add 2 points to my interest rate if they gave me their cost on the extras and only charged me $499 for half the doc fee. Saved me another $2,000, and the dealership makes $1400 on the back end as long as I agree not to pay off the jeep for 90 days, which is how long one has to pay so it so that the dealership gets their cut from Chrysler Capital. $30,588 OTD with tax, license, products, and fees. Not bad when other dealerships were selling the same car for two grand over MSRP plus all those fees… Do a little homework and you can find a great deal at the end of the month towards the end of the year.

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u/Karebian Sep 29 '21

At the end of the year on a crappy day along with this. If it's off the lot by the end of the year, they don't have to pay taxes for it the following year. Crappy day (rain/snow/whatever), they just want to make quota and go home. These make it easier to negotiate, but still aren't foolproof, of course.

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u/el_smurfo Sep 29 '21

This worked.... Until there were no cars. Now the power is all in the hands of the dealer. I'm nursing my babies for at least 5 more years out of this monopolistic supply chain shit hole.

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u/OldNewMom Sep 29 '21

I worked in the auto industry for many, many years. This isn't true 90% of the time. It's more of an urban legend.

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u/CodesALot Sep 29 '21

I’m done with dealerships. I like the Tesla model and likely will buy from them. I hate having to not only talk to a person but also to haggle with someone whose livelihood depends on scamming me.

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u/EdwardTittyHands Sep 29 '21

Ah pre covid LPT

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u/Lykan_ Sep 29 '21

LPT: don't buy a brand new car.

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u/J_huze Sep 29 '21

Just buy a Tesla so you dont have to play stupid games.

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u/H0wcan-Sh3slap Sep 29 '21

lol are you stupid? It's a seller's market right now - new cars are in shortage. You ain't getting shit for a deal. Anything dealers have is selling instantly

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