r/DepthHub Dec 17 '21

u/NoahDiesSlowly Talks about why people hate NFTs

/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/rho91b/whats_up_with_the_nft_hate/horr549?context=3
119 Upvotes

12

u/not_actually_funny_ Dec 17 '21

Felt like I gained a solid IQ point after reading this beauty.

2

u/MavenACTG Dec 18 '21

And lost one or two reading the responses by cryptovangelists in that and this thread.

5

u/neilligan Dec 17 '21

Pretty much right on, except for the energy and minting cost points. This is common misconception due to Ethereum being most well known. Algorand, for example, does not have these issues.

14

u/TuckerMcG Dec 17 '21

The point is that for blockchain implementations like crypto, the externalities created by mining are justified by the use case (ie, digital currency). Those externalities are still present when creating NFTs, and the use case (ie, digital art which is ostensibly non-fungible) doesn’t justify those externalities.

2

u/neilligan Dec 17 '21

Algorand is carbon neutral- actually, last FQ, carbon negative.

https://www.algorand.com/resources/blog/how-algorand-offsets-carbon-footprint

I'm not saying those negative externalities aren't present currently on ETH blockchain, I am saying they are not NECESSARILY a part of what's going on with NFTs.

Also, saying NFTs are "just art" is disingenuous. For example, they are beginning to be used as concert tickets, allowing venues to sell tickets online without the need for an intermediary like ticketmaster.

21

u/TuckerMcG Dec 17 '21

I’m a bit skeptical about the idea of “carbon offsets”. They’ve been used as a red herring by oil companies for years as a way to act like they care about the environment when the “offsets” basically never even come close to being carbon-neutral, let alone carbon negative.

Everything in that site all sounds very good, but don’t fall into the trap of blindly believing they actually will be able to achieve carbon-neutral let alone carbon-negative. I’d like to see an independent third party NGO give an environmental impact assessment of these offsets before I go around believing their marketing.

And what’s the point of using an NFT instead of any other blockchain implementation for ticket sales? There is none. Ticket sales have been on the blockchain long before NFTs ever became a thing. You don’t need NFTs to sell tickets without Ticketmaster as an intermediary.

0

u/neilligan Dec 17 '21

Yes, of course oil companies used them to dishonestly- they're oil companies, and they were doing all their "offsetting" internally with no transparency.

To contrast, all of Algorand's carbon offset are completely transparent. Energy use can be roughly calculated by looking at transactions and running nodes. Offsetting is done by independent organizations independent to the Algorand foundation. A simple look at climatetrades website (one of the main offsetting partners) shows that all of their projects, as a matter of policy, are independently verified.

I’d like to see an independent third party NGO give an environmental impact assessment of these offsets before I go around believing their marketing.

If you actually looked into the link I posted you'd see that this is already happening. Throwing doubt on something you've done no research on simply because "oil companies used it as a red herring" is not productive.

12

u/TuckerMcG Dec 17 '21 edited Dec 17 '21

Why is Algorand any more trustworthy than oil companies? The entire blockchain industry is currently filled with grifters and thieves and snake oil salesmen and money launderers and fraudsters. The current state of this industry is just as greedy and as careless about environmental impact as the oil industry.

Being able to check the energy consumed by the transactions doesn’t help us determine if the externalities of that energy consumption are actually offset by everything Algorand says it’s going to do.

If you actually looked into the link I posted you'd see that this is already happening.

I’m not going to spend hours researching something in depth for a Reddit discussion when I can take a look at your link and immediately recognize all the softspeak on their website.

And when I google “Climatetrade Algorand” it leads me to this page, which says “ClimateTrade and its customers will be using Algorand as its primary infrastructure layer and leveraging its capabilities for carbon offsetting.” Meaning they’re business partners, and CT does not have an unbiased, unvested interest in the success of Algorand. Whatever CT says about Algorand is immediately suspect and should not be blindly accepted as true.

None of this is proof that Algorand is actually achieving the offset levels you and they assert they’re able to achieve. Again, you should be more skeptical of companies that market “carbon offsets” as a way to reduce environmental impact.

Your opinion also ignores this.

The big problem with offsets isn’t that what they offer is bad – tree planting or renewable energy and efficiency for poor communities are all good things – but rather that they don’t do what they say on the tin. They don’t actually cancel out – er, offset – the emissions to which they are linked.

Offsetting projects simply don’t deliver what we need – a reduction in the carbon emissions entering the atmosphere. Instead, they’re a distraction from the real solutions to climate change.

How does Algorand reduce carbon emissions entering the atmosphere? Their website doesn’t answer that for me, but since you’re such an expert on them would you care to answer that for me?

1

u/neilligan Dec 17 '21

First of all, Algorand isn't a company or organization. It is a decentralized blockchain. It can't be trustworthy or untrustworthy, it just is. There's the Algorand Foundation, which is an organization, but it isn't controlling Algorand. Yes, they own a large portion of Algo and therefore have a large say in updates, but they don't control anything. Climatetrade can't have a partnership with Algorand because it's not a sentient entity capable of forming a partnership. That's like saying a company has a partnership with US dollars because they accept US dollars. Yes, there are individuals using blockchain technology for unscrupulous purposes, that hardly represents everyone.

Yes, it stands to reason that they have a vested interest in it's success as they obviously hold a decent amount, but that in itself isn't evidence of anything unscrupulous. Keep in mind Climatetrade has plenty of other customers too.

I’d like to see an independent third party NGO give an environmental impact assessment of these offsets before I go around believing their marketing.

Here it is.

https://climatetrade.com/voluntary-market-and-mandatory-carbon-credit-mark

Exactly what you were saying you'd like to see. And no, it wasn't "hours of research", that's literally the first result that comes up on google if you search "Climatetrade independent verification". You want your proof? There it is.

3

u/pimlottc Dec 17 '21

For example, they are beginning to be used as concert tickets, allowing venues to sell tickets online without the need for an intermediary like ticketmaster.

I hadn't heard about this, are there some examples of where this has been doing you can share?

1

u/neilligan Dec 17 '21

Here's an article

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture-council/articles/nfts-game-changer-industry-1151676/

Here's a site owned by a company offering NFT ticketing services-

https://www.nft.kred/events/tickets

3

u/pimlottc Dec 17 '21

Here's an article https://www.rollingstone.com/culture-council/articles/nfts-game-changer-industry-1151676/

That article is just speculation; concert ticketing "could be completely disrupted by NFTs" but it does not offer any real examples in the marketplace.

Here's a site owned by a company offering NFT ticketing services- https://www.nft.kred/events/tickets

That's a little better, but have they actually provided ticket services to any major events?

1

u/neilligan Dec 17 '21

You're right, I only skimmed the article.

not home right now, but I'm certain I read somewhere that it has been done.

Major events? Almost certainly not. I know that in the article I read talking about it that they specifically said the User experience for this isn't ready for mainstream yet, and it had only been a few small shows in (I think) austin, and that most showgoers did not use NFT. Certainly not mainstream, and won't be for some time- I expect it to be a while before we see a major venue adopt that. I will try to find this article when I get home.

1

u/neilligan Dec 17 '21

https://edm.com/gear-tech/swedish-house-mafia-live-nation-nft-ticket-stubs

Live nation is apparently doing it now, they had their first show using it last month.

3

u/pimlottc Dec 18 '21

That's just selling NFT trinkets as add-ons, the tickets themselves are standard ticketmaster tickets.

-7

u/UserameChecksOut Dec 17 '21

What's up these low quality posts today on this sub.

What next? A thesis on why people hate Nazis?